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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Not if you restrict yourself to written sources, of course. This is where synthesis of different types of evidence is required.



    I'm coming around to the view that it would be quicker for you to purchase a copy of Ancestral Journeys, to save me having to post lengthy quotations from it all the time. Here's another:



    My AJ made heavy use of the wonderful Peter Heather, Empires and Barbarians (2009).
    Of course, the totality of evidence is suggestive of movements from Baltic to Black Sea; but does not
    Confirm beyond doubt that the (real) Gothic ethnogenesis occurred in the North Sea region/ Baltic/ Scandza; nor does it confirm that east Germanic arrived to Ukraine in the 3rd century; although that is the parasiminous position to be held.

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    @Gravetto Danubian
    Yes, of course, and also found in the Volga Ural area, including Khanties and Mansis who speak a similar language as Hungarians. Moreover, a part of the mtDNA looks like local Neolithic type mtDNA.

    To my knowledge we do not have any specifically Gothic mtDNA.
    Last edited by Kristiina; 02-22-2017 at 03:39 PM.

  4. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    the (real) Gothic ethnogenesis occurred in the North Sea region
    Heavens! We are now into almost mystic territory. Just as cultures are always changing, splitting, coalescing, so too is ethnicity. As I say in AJ:

    How does migration affect self-identification? Some of those fleeing hardship may see themselves as temporary refugees, but others may never return to the land of their birth. The new land becomes the homeland for their descendants. Sometimes a movement which began as an expansion of territory ends up creating separate tribes or nations, who may even become enemies in the course of time. The idea of a permanent ethnic or national identity that can be tracked through time from the Palaeolithic to the present is a chimera.
    The best we can do in answer to that perennial question "where did population X come from?" is to look for antecedents, genetic and/or linguistic and/or cultural, peppered with caveats that peoples mix and mingle, leaving signs of same in genetics, language and culture.
    Last edited by Jean M; 02-22-2017 at 02:28 PM.

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  6. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Heavens! We are now into almost mystic territory.
    Some of us may be, but I'm not sure Gravetto-Danubian is among them. He preceded the part you quoted with "nor does it confirm beyond doubt that..."

    There is a typo in the remark (one phrase occurring twice), and it's getting into the sort of imbedded syntax that's hard to unravel. Still, I shouldn't doubt but that it might not be a bad idea not to overparse these things. More positively, I suspect that both of you knew what you were talking about, and didn't disagree.

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  8. #475
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    This is an interview in Spanish to Carles Lalueza-Fox, who is working on a paper called "The Genomic Prehistory of the Iberian Peninsula", to be released in 2018.

    In the interview, Lalueza-Fox states that the genetic pool of the Spanish population is 50% of Neolithic origin, 30% Kurgan, and 20% Western Hunter-gatherer.

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/lacontra...os-azules.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by r_r_abril View Post
    This is an interview in Spanish to Carles Lalueza-Fox, who is working on a paper called "The Genomic Prehistory of the Iberian Peninsula", to be released in 2018.

    In the interview, Lalueza-Fox states that the genetic pool of the Spanish population is 50% of Neolithic origin, 30% Kurgan, and 20% Western Hunter-gatherer.

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/lacontra...os-azules.html
    If the post-Neolithic people of Iberia are determined predominantly as Baltic Hunter Gatherer rather than La Brana or Loschbour we will have an even greater understanding of European prehistory. Hopefully these guys start collaborating with one another.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster 1100 BC
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Field: R-U106
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Heavens! We are now into almost mystic territory. Just as cultures are always changing, splitting, coalescing, so too is ethnicity. As I say in AJ:



    The best we can do in answer to that perennial question "where did population X come from?" is to look for antecedents, genetic and/or linguistic and/or cultural, peppered with caveats that peoples mix and mingle, leaving signs of same in genetics, language and culture.
    -Ancient historians state that the goths lived on both sides of the Vistula river on the baltic sea ( to their east across the Nogat river where the Venedi ), we then find the goths on the Black sea and have absorbed the sarmatians into their gothic society. So they ( goths ) controlled all the lower Vistula river.
    -Historians also state the Goths absorbed into their society the Venedi and Aestii people into their group before moving to the black sea.
    -Clearly the goths never had the manpower to be of any significance unless they absorbed other minor tribes

    -Then Roman historians state the goths where on their borders and the Romans did not allow them to enter the empire to settle even though the Romans engaged the goths as
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foederati
    Foederati troops.

    -we also see that the Romans named Alaric in their service as leader of the goths and that he was a Visigoth
    Last edited by vettor; 02-22-2017 at 05:08 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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  14. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    M20 is a far upstream SNP and is dated to around 23kya (MRCA) according to YFull.

    Of the primary subclades, L1a1-M27 is specific to the Indian subcontinent, L1a2-M357 has a SC Asian-N Caucasus-Iranian plateau distribution, L1b-M317 is mostly found in West Asia and one subclade peaks in Europe.

    If your associate's leaks are true, then we would expect Rakhigarhi to be mostly L1a1, L1a2, or a mixture of the two. I would bet it has both, with L1a1 > L1a2. I would also bet that the remaining subclades would be Y-DNA H and a variant of J2 (possibly J2b2 based on modern subclade distributions).

    A second unrelated source says, majority are L-M20, and the remaining subclades are R2.

    Again, I can't verify the claims. My initial source doesn't seem to want to tell me more haha.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 02-22-2017 at 05:44 PM.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    A second unrelated source says, majority are L-M20, and the remaining subclades are R2.

    Again, I can't verify the claims. My initial source doesn't seem to want to tell me more haha.
    In most cases , where you find L haplogroup , you will find T haplogroup as they both have SNP (L298/P326)

    every person who is either L or T will have that as a positive marker

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_LT

    I know there is 11% of T in eastern India..............but was there any in this paper?


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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  18. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    In most cases , where you find L haplogroup , you will find T haplogroup as they both have SNP (L298/P326)

    every person who is either L or T will have that as a positive marker

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_LT

    I know there is 11% of T in eastern India..............but was there any in this paper?
    Referred to as K2 here:
    http://www.krepublishers.com/06-Spec...ivedi-R-Tt.pdf
    It would be a big news if found in Rakhigarhi.

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