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Thread: italian j1, questions about my haplogroup

  1. #51
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    I really would like to see any of that Socotra J*(XJ1, XJ2) tested again with modern NGS technologies to see if the results would sustain again. No individual from the Arabian Peninsula with a very big number of testees, thousands of people, ever had that results.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon_74 View Post
    How did you know that the Amharic J1* reported in Chiaroni et al.2009 were in fact J1c3?
    "MATERIALS AND METHODS
    The nomenclature used for haplogroup labeling is in agreement with YCC
    conventions and a recent update.16 All samples designated as haplogroup J1
    were determined to be derived at M267. Chromosomes labeled as J1* are
    J1(xJ1e). Our study involves a total of 553 haplogroup J1 samples involving 38
    populations (Supplementary Table 1). These distribute to 494 J1e-derived and
    59 J1* samples. The majority of the samples were experimentally analyzed for
    the haplogroup J1e-defining SNP by either RFLP or DHPLC methodology,
    except for 55 reported as being of J1 membership from the Sudanese from
    Khartoum; Amhara from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia; and Iraqis from Nassiriya.18
    These were inferred to belong to J1e based on companion YSTR haplotype
    data. The criteria to deduce J1e status involved the filter of DYS388 ≥ 15
    repeats and YCAII A, B allele sizes of either 19, 22 or 22, 22.
    The haplotype data
    used in our analyses are given in Supplementary Table 2.

    [...]

    RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
    Figure 1a shows the geographical location of populations included in
    this study. J1* chromosomes have their maximal frequency in the
    Taurus and Zagros mountain regions of Eastern Anatolia, Northern
    Iraq and Western Iran (Figure 1c). It is noted that the J1* chromosomes
    frequently appear in combination with the 12 or 13 repeat
    pattern at DYS388, whereas the J1e chromosomes almost always
    display 15 or more repeats. Therefore, the J1e SNP information
    supports the previous inference that J1 chromosomes linked with
    DYS388=13 repeats share a common ancestry.1 Network analysis of
    J1* chromosomes (Figure 2a) show a bifurcating substructure. One
    cluster is associated with DYS388=15 and DYS390>23 repeats and
    the other cluster with DYS388=13 repeats. The locale of highest J1*
    frequency occurs in the vicinity of eastern Anatolia (Figure 1c). Both
    J1* and J1e occur in Sudan and Ethiopia (Supplementary Table 1).
    Our data show that the YCAII 22-22 allele state is closely associated
    with J1e (Supplementary Table 2). Interestingly, in Ethiopia, all
    Cushitic Oromo and ~29% of Semitic Amharic J1 chromosomes
    are J1*.
    "


    Source: Chiaroni et al. 2009

    Actually there's no solid scientific evidence linking the P58 SNP to Semitic speaking people. In fact even the majority of Semitic speaking Mehri tribe in Socotra are J*

    Attachment 10541
    P58's TMRCA is 10,000 years old, so thousands of years older than anything remotely Semitic. On the other hand, a vast majority of its branches are found in Semitic-speaking populations, YSC234 for instance, which accounts for a vast majority of P58 in Semitic-speaking populations, has loads of major branches at roughly the same phylogenetic level and its TMRCA goes back to the first half of the 4th millenium BCE, its phylogeny also seems to emulate the phylogeny of Semitic languages so unless this some sort of happy coincidence, it's pretty clear the earliest Semitic-speaking communities carried YSC234 since it is bound to have been at the right place at the right time, in other words it is quite literally the closest thing we have to a Proto-Semitic marker.

    Other branches of P58 fit the bill, lifeisdandy's basal P58 cluster for example is bound to be roughly 5,000 years old if we go off the TMRCA estimates, in other words its TMRCA was more or less contemporary with the branches of YSC234 (ZS241, FGC4745, L858 and its branches). This is just an example, a telling one nonetheless.

    The fact that J* is found in MSA speakers from Soqotra doesn't disprove this correlation, which was already noticed before we even knew of P58 or YSC234.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 07-21-2016 at 06:36 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  5. #53
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    I'm not an expert but I don't think you are Arabacio. don't worry too much.

    All three branches of J1-L858 (S640, YSC76 and FGC12) are found in Europe, principally in Spain, Italy, central and eastern Europe. Their relatively recent time of divergence with their Middle Eastern cousins (Late Bronze Age to Iron Age) suggests that they would have arrived with the Phoenicians (Sicily, Sardinia, Spain), and later in greater numbers with the Jewish diaspora. Spain and Portugal have the highest percentage of FGC12 in Europe, but this amounts to about 12% of J1 lineages, i.e. less than 0.5% of the population, suggesting that the Arabs had a much smaller genetic impact on the Iberian population than the Jews and the Phoenicians.
    Last edited by sciencediver; 07-21-2016 at 08:19 PM.

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciencediver View Post
    I'm not an expert but I don't think you are Arabacio. don't worry too much.
    you are saying it like he should be worried if he was arab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisdandy View Post
    you are saying it like he should be worried if he was arab.
    matezaalsh meny

  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciencediver View Post
    matezaalsh meny
    ana zaalana.. malhom il arab?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisdandy View Post
    ana zaalana.. malhom il arab?
    malhom il arab?
    i was just joking , i like arabs.

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  13. #58
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    Mod: e7kou inglizi ya jama3a
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    ok lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    "MATERIALS AND METHODS
    The nomenclature used for haplogroup labeling is in agreement with YCC
    conventions and a recent update.16 All samples designated as haplogroup J1
    were determined to be derived at M267. Chromosomes labeled as J1* are
    J1(xJ1e). Our study involves a total of 553 haplogroup J1 samples involving 38
    populations (Supplementary Table 1). These distribute to 494 J1e-derived and
    59 J1* samples. The majority of the samples were experimentally analyzed for
    the haplogroup J1e-defining SNP by either RFLP or DHPLC methodology,
    except for 55 reported as being of J1 membership from the Sudanese from
    Khartoum; Amhara from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia; and Iraqis from Nassiriya.18
    These were inferred to belong to J1e based on companion YSTR haplotype
    data. The criteria to deduce J1e status involved the filter of DYS388 ≥ 15
    repeats and YCAII A, B allele sizes of either 19, 22 or 22, 22.
    The haplotype data
    used in our analyses are given in Supplementary Table 2.

    [...]

    RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
    Figure 1a shows the geographical location of populations included in
    this study. J1* chromosomes have their maximal frequency in the
    Taurus and Zagros mountain regions of Eastern Anatolia, Northern
    Iraq and Western Iran (Figure 1c). It is noted that the J1* chromosomes
    frequently appear in combination with the 12 or 13 repeat
    pattern at DYS388, whereas the J1e chromosomes almost always
    display 15 or more repeats. Therefore, the J1e SNP information
    supports the previous inference that J1 chromosomes linked with
    DYS388=13 repeats share a common ancestry.1 Network analysis of
    J1* chromosomes (Figure 2a) show a bifurcating substructure. One
    cluster is associated with DYS388=15 and DYS390>23 repeats and
    the other cluster with DYS388=13 repeats. The locale of highest J1*
    frequency occurs in the vicinity of eastern Anatolia (Figure 1c). Both
    J1* and J1e occur in Sudan and Ethiopia (Supplementary Table 1).
    Our data show that the YCAII 22-22 allele state is closely associated
    with J1e (Supplementary Table 2). Interestingly, in Ethiopia, all
    Cushitic Oromo and ~29% of Semitic Amharic J1 chromosomes
    are J1*.
    "


    Source: Chiaroni et al. 2009
    I'm afraid that you haven't prove yet that the J1* Semitic speaking Amharic people were P58 positive.

    It's obvious that the Amharic results were P56 positive due to its distinctive modal

    DYS393=12
    DYS390=24
    DYS19=14
    DYS391=11
    DYS385=12-19
    DYS388=15
    DYS439=11
    DYS389i=13
    DYS392=11

    Semitic-Amharic.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    P58's TMRCA is 10,000 years old, so thousands of years older than anything remotely Semitic. On the other hand, a vast majority of its branches are found in Semitic-speaking populations, YSC234 for instance, which accounts for a vast majority of P58 in Semitic-speaking populations
    !!.....

    Semitic Speaking J Haplo.jpg

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