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Thread: Assyrian Y-DNA Distribution

  1. #291
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    Received an interesting message today from Michał regarding an Assyrian member of R1a:

    [W]e can securely assume that [the Assyrian] kit is a member of a relatively rare clade Y40 under Z94. More specifically, he seems to be a member of a very specific sublineage under Z667 (a subclade also known as YP294). Subclade Z667 is known to be represented in Saudi Arabia (cluster Z667-A in our project) and in Italy (where it is represented by a downstream subclade known as Z96, encompassing two 1KG samples from Tuscany), so now we will have a new (third) potential sublineage of Z667 that is associated with the Assyrian and Turkish ancestry.

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  3. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Northwest Europeans --> Assyrians? No. But it is possible that people/groups speaking an Anatolian Indo-European language may have had something to do with it. And these Anatolian Indo-European-speaking peoples may be the link between Assyrians and the R1b men of NW Europe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Linguists have identified possible (probable ?) Akkadian, and even Old Persian influences in our vernacular. Not Armenian. It is possible, at least some, or perhaps a significant part of our R-L23 frequency may have arrived on the heels of individuals speaking the NW Semitic language of Aramaic. It is possible, that at least some of the R-L23 lines now observed in Armenians and Assyrians were responsible for the " Indo-Europeanization" of the former, and the "Aramaization" of the latter some time during the late Bronze Age and early Iron Age.


    Wikipedia

    Historical map of the Neo-Hittite ["Aramaean"] states, c. 800 BCE. Borders are approximate only.


    The academic Roy King left a comment on the Eurogenes Blog recently regarding the reported link between R1b and Indo-Europeans revealed in the David Reich lecture of February 9, 2015 at Oxford. Here is the most pertinent part for the purposes of this post:

    R1b surfed from the Eastern/Northern Caspian all the way into Europe with, probably, some R1b-L23 migrating from the Balkans into Anatolia, ferrying the Anatolian languages there.

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  5. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    The academic Roy King left a comment on the Eurogenes Blog recently regarding the reported link between R1b and Indo-Europeans revealed in the David Reich lecture of February 9, 2015 at Oxford. Here is the most pertinent part for the purposes of this post:
    I saw it as well, the following part really interested me:

    I have been a major proponent of J2 convecting the first Neolithic farmers to Europe which is clearly now not the case, with G2a taking preeminence.
    I've agreed with most of what Roy King had to say (especially the clear link he established between J1 and the distribution of desert kites [and Zarins' work on the circum-Arabian nomadic pastoral complex], which is nothing short of brilliant), save on this topic in particular since I've been favouring a Late Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age arrival of J2a in Europe over a Neolithic one for years now. I'm glad to see him taking recent discoveries into account, to say the least!
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    I mentioned those populations specifically, because the user to whom I directed the post has suggested, in the past, that R1b observed in the general area of Assyrians may have come from said peoples.

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    He is way off base then. I think Silesian also believes R1b in Eastern Europe comes from Scythians despite Scythians being absorbed by Turks and not Europeans and the Z93 to L23 ratios in Eastern Europe being inconsistent with this scenario.
    No I think it comes from Yamnaya, what do you think? Perhaps Assyrians migrated to Russia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Perhaps Assyrians migrated [and brought Z2103] to Russia?
    That is very unlikely. The Assyrians do not come into existence early enough for that to be a possibility. Furthermore, there is no record of Assyrians travelling farther than Anatolia/S. Caucasus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Received an interesting message today from Michał regarding an Assyrian member of R1a:

    [W]e can securely assume that [the Assyrian] kit is a member of a relatively rare clade Y40 under Z94. More specifically, he seems to be a member of a very specific sublineage under Z667 (a subclade also known as YP294). Subclade Z667 is known to be represented in Saudi Arabia (cluster Z667-A in our project) and in Italy (where it is represented by a downstream subclade known as Z96, encompassing two 1KG samples from Tuscany), so now we will have a new (third) potential sublineage of Z667 that is associated with the Assyrian and Turkish ancestry.
    Some further news regarding the Assyrian and Turkish (possible) match. There is another individual who may belong to their particular group. The individual in question is a Kurd, from Sulaymaniyah, Iraq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    No I think it comes from Yamnaya, what do you think? Perhaps Assyrians migrated to Russia?
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  14. #298
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    Dienekes posted a link to an upcoming paper on his site here.

    From the post:

    The Y chromosome data seems particularly exciting (there is a spreadsheet of populations in the download directory). One of the weaknesses of the 1000 Genomes data was that it didn't have any populations between Tuscany and East/South Asia, and the new dataset seems to rectify that.
    From the sheet, it appears that three Assyrians are included. The men are classified as belonging to haplogroups: R1a2, R1b11, and J2a6.

    I believe the R1a2 and R1b11 men are the same as those included in the Rootsi et al. Ashkenazi Levite study from a little while back.

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  16. #299
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    A very significant update. Many thanks to Tomasso for providing the data. I presume that these additions represent, in significant part, members of the Chaldean Catholic Church. Perhaps, this is the largest collection of Chaldean Catholic data to date, given that most studies of Assyrians have been restricted to members of the so-called "Nestorian" faith. As such, I believe this is more representative of the genetic landscape of northern Mesopotamia. But, we still need more data for members of the Syriac Orthodox Church.

    N=179 (3/13/15)
    23.5% R1b
    19.0% J1
    13.4% T
    13.4% J2
    11.2% E1b1b1
    8.9% G
    2.8% R2a
    2.8% Q1b
    2.2% R1a
    1.1% F
    0.6% L
    0.6% I
    0.6% Q1a


    A breakdown of the 42 samples:

    23.8% E1b1b1
    21.4% R1b1b2a
    21.4% J1
    11.9% J2
    9.5% T
    9.5% G2
    2.4% R1a

    Some notes:

    1.The frequencies of R1b1b2a, J1, J2, G, and R1a are comparable to their "Nestorian" brothers.

    2.Their frequency of Y-DNA T is high, but it is a bit lower than that of the "Nestorians."

    3.Where the Chaldean Catholic Y-DNA profile is distinguished is in the frequency of E1b1b1c1/a. Whether E1b1b1c1/a in the Chaldean Catholics is diverse, one cannot tell based on data gathered at 23andMe. Hopefully some will test at FTDNA.

    4.The nature of the J1 observed in Chaldean Catholics is similar to that of the "Nestorians," in that J1*>J1-P58.

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  18. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Dienekes posted a link to an upcoming paper on his site here.

    From the post:

    The Y chromosome data seems particularly exciting (there is a spreadsheet of populations in the download directory). One of the weaknesses of the 1000 Genomes data was that it didn't have any populations between Tuscany and East/South Asia, and the new dataset seems to rectify that.
    From the sheet, it appears that three Assyrians are included. The men are classified as belonging to haplogroups: R1a2, R1b11, and J2a6.

    I believe the R1a2 and R1b11 men are the same as those included in the Rootsi et al. Ashkenazi Levite study from a little while back.
    There is some STR data provided in the supplementary information here. Here are the haplotypes for the above three Assyrians, for the markers that overlap with the standard FTDNA 1 through 12:

    Code:
    393	390	19	391	385a	385b	426	388	439	389i	392	389ii	
    12	23	14	10	13	14	xx	xx	12	12	11	30	J2a6
    13	25	17	11	11	14	xx	xx	10	13	11	31	R1a2c'd-B430
    13	24	14	10	13	15	xx	xx	12	13	13	30	R1b11-L945

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