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Thread: Gedmatch oracle question?

  1. #1
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    Gedmatch oracle question?

    I'm really mixed (I think) and most GED-match calculators are unhelpful in terms of oracles, since most are distant even in mixed ones.
    However, whenever there is a Jewish population in the mix, distance falls sharply. Is this because there is real jewish influence or I just happen by chance to be admixed in that direction (if that's even possible)?
    I googled lemba people and even they claim Jewish roots.

    My ancestry is east African (coastal). My ancestors were mostly merchants and traders who arrived on the east African coast at different times. I did some research and I'd guess, the first arrivals where pre-islamic, Persians (I guess not necessarily ethnic Persians) who controlled trade through that region.

    Xample:

    MDLP-World-22
    dmix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Sub-Saharian 32.92
    2 Near_East 25.24
    3 West-Asian 14.79
    4 Indian 10.39
    5 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 6.18
    6 East-South-Asian 2.49
    7 North-European-Mesolithic 1.84
    8 Pygmy 1.20
    9 South-African 1.06
    10 Indo-Iranian 1.04


    Finished reading population data. 276 populations found.
    22 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Yemen @ 23.410814
    2 Egyptian @ 30.361515
    3 Ethiopian @ 31.297224
    4 Jew_Ethiopia @ 33.173931
    5 Jew-Ethiopia @ 33.402180
    6 Moroccan @ 33.676250
    7 Jordanian @ 34.284637
    8 Mozabite @ 38.193054
    9 Palestinian @ 39.204132
    10 Bedouin @ 40.130299
    11 Syrian @ 40.263409
    12 Iraqi @ 40.871044
    13 Costanoan @ 41.956036
    14 Lebanese @ 42.863625
    15 Iranian @ 43.463459
    16 Jew_Libya @ 43.666096
    17 Jew_Morocco @ 44.177204
    18 Jew_Tunisia @ 44.686520
    19 Turkmen @ 44.893627
    20 Lumbee @ 45.050228

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ethiopian +50% Makrani @ 14.478886


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Egyptian +25% Jew_India +25% Mandenka @ 6.342694


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lemba + Palestinian @ 3.546687
    2 Bantu + Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Palestinian @ 3.562203
    3 Bantu + Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Samaritian @ 3.578730
    4 Bantu + Ethiopian + Jew_India + Samaritian @ 3.602867
    5 Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lemba + Palestinian @ 3.603581
    6 Bantu + Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Samaritian @ 3.626575
    7 Bantu + Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Palestinian @ 3.659147
    8 Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Jordanian + Lemba @ 3.666000
    9 Ethiopian + Jew_India + Lemba + Palestinian @ 3.720616
    10 Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Jordanian + Lemba @ 3.790117
    11 Ethiopian + Jew_India + Lemba + Samaritian @ 3.883342
    12 Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lemba + Syrian @ 4.080247
    13 Bantu + Ethiopian + Jew_India + Palestinian @ 4.086263
    14 Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lemba + Syrian @ 4.156475
    15 Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lebanese + Lemba @ 4.157646
    16 Jew-Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lemba + Samaritian @ 4.164648
    17 Bantu + Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Jordanian @ 4.176236
    18 Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Lebanese + Lemba @ 4.210834
    19 Ethiopian + Jew_India + Jordanian + Lemba @ 4.235343
    20 Jew_Ethiopia + Jew_India + Mandenka + Samaritian @ 4.236082


    I just noticed. How can I be more closely related to some native american tribe "Costanoan" than Lebanese or Iranian? This does not make historical or geographical sense.

    The oracle with least distance:

    World9 4-Ancestors Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 African 34.35
    2 Southern 29.47
    3 Caucasus_Gedrosia 16.61
    4 South_Asian 13.56
    5 East_Asian 1.74
    6 Atlantic_Baltic 1.65
    7 Amerindian 1.02


    Finished reading population data. 250 populations found.
    9 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Yemenese @ 25.290171
    2 Ethiopians @ 26.199980
    3 Ethiopian_Jews @ 26.926497
    4 Somali @ 29.557055
    5 Egyptans @ 32.325600
    6 Moroccans @ 34.446362
    7 Mozabite @ 36.855854
    8 Jordanians @ 37.854404
    9 Dominican @ 37.901897
    10 Palestinian @ 39.663326
    11 Bedouin @ 41.027470
    12 Lebanese @ 41.474751
    13 Syrians @ 41.800293
    14 MKK30 @ 43.550144
    15 Saudis @ 44.171314
    16 Puerto_Rican @ 44.379665
    17 Morocco_Jews @ 45.644657
    18 Iranians @ 45.802376
    19 Druze @ 46.218292
    20 Turkmens @ 46.939804

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Somali +50% Bnei_Menashe_Jews @ 12.061228


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% MKK30 +25% Cochin_Jews +25% Samaritians @ 3.258934


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopians + Yemen_Jews + San_He @ 1.757786
    2 Somali + Cochin_Jews + Yemen_Jews + San_He @ 1.818075
    3 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + Saudis + ACB30 @ 1.850908
    4 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopians + Yemen_Jews + ACB30 @ 1.851356
    5 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + Saudis + San_He @ 1.868081
    6 Somali + Cochin_Jews + Samaritians + Hadza_He @ 1.920551
    7 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + Yemen_Jews + San_He @ 1.928575
    8 Somali + Cochin_Jews + Jordanians + Sandawe_He @ 1.955323
    9 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + Yemen_Jews + ACB30 @ 2.029824
    10 Palestinian + Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + Hadza_He @ 2.072654
    11 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopians + Saudis + ACB30 @ 2.114862
    12 Indian + Somali + Yemen_Jews + Hadza_He @ 2.133233
    13 Bedouin + Cochin_Jews + Ethiopian_Jews + San_He @ 2.146225
    14 Cochin_Jews + Ethiopians + Saudis + San_He @ 2.149328
    15 Indian + Bedouin + Ethiopian_Jews + Hadza_He @ 2.157455
    16 Indian + Ethiopian_Jews + Saudis + Hadza_He @ 2.159034
    17 Indian + Bantu_N.E. + Ethiopian_Jews + Yemen_Jews @ 2.162098
    18 Somali + Yemen_Jews + Hadza_He + Meena @ 2.246564
    19 Indian + LWK30 + Ethiopian_Jews + Yemen_Jews @ 2.249224
    20 Indian + Ethiopians + Yemen_Jews + Hadza_He @ 2.253256

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.8678 seconds.
    Last edited by Deftextra; 08-27-2015 at 03:02 PM.

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  3. #2
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    From which East African country are you from?
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    >Mz90>PF6794>PF6789
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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    Both my parents are from Somalia's coastal city's and towns. We are a group of people, which I guess have about the same admixture but which can vary allot. I found a cousin in Ancestry.com, which is from the same group and has about same admixture but has a much larger east-Asian component than me. Hence, why I think we vary allot. We don't all look the same either. The Yemen component was something that I was expecting on my mothers side, but that link isn't well established either and is quite distant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra View Post
    Both my parents are from Somalia's coastal city's and towns. We are a group of people, which I guess have about the same admixture but which can vary allot. I found a cousin in Ancestry.com, which is from the same group and has about same admixture but has a much larger east-Asian component than me. Hence, why I think we vary allot. We don't all look the same either. The Yemen component was something that I was expecting on my mothers side, but that link isn't well established either and is quite distant.
    On GEDmatch, under the Eurogenes panel, is a calculator Jtest. Try that. Perhaps that will be informative.
    dp :-)
    Also check out the Anthromadness blog. Member Awale runs it.
    Last edited by dp; 09-01-2015 at 05:40 PM.
    Grace and good eure and long prosperitee. [Lydg. Mum. Goldsmiths]

    ysearch/mitosearch id: atr94 GENBANK/ENA mtDNA id: KF703542 member ISOGG

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  9. #5
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    Before I get to trying to help you... Are you "Radwan" from Forumbiodiversity? If you are then I learned a few extra things about your ancestry since we last spoke and actually felt quite bad as I'd somewhat mislead you. Your ancestry is a good degree more complex than I let on last time and I was a bit too hasty.
    فار عارابإ آ واجإب اه

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Before I get to trying to help you... Are you "Radwan" from Forumbiodiversity? If you are then I learned a few extra things about your ancestry since we last spoke and actually felt quite bad as I'd somewhat mislead you. Your ancestry is a good degree more complex than I let on last time and I was a bit too hasty.
    Yes its me. After a month, it just kept lingering in my mind as I had to many questions unanswered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra View Post
    Yes its me. After a month, it just kept lingering in my mind as I had to many questions unanswered.
    Yeah, I've learned a few things since we last spoke like how you're not as "Somali" as I let on before... From what I could tell before you took down your Gedmatch kit; you're something like a curious mix of South Asian, Somali, West Asian & Bantu. Truthfully I can't be very specific without you sharing your kit no. with me again so I can take my time again and look through your various results. I'll look into whether or not you have Jewish ancestry too.

    For the time being; could you show us what you turn up with on AncestryDNA (screenshots)?
    فار عارابإ آ واجإب اه

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Yeah, I've learned a few things since we last spoke like how you're not as "Somali" as I let on before... From what I could tell before you took down your Gedmatch kit; you're something like a curious mix of South Asian, Somali, West Asian & Bantu. Truthfully I can't be very specific without you sharing your kit no. with me again so I can take my time again and look through your various results. I'll look into whether or not you have Jewish ancestry too.

    For the time being; could you show us what you turn up with on AncestryDNA (screenshots)?
    That is what I noticed as-well. My African seems to mixed with Bantu. I googled a bit and it seems that there was a bantu population south of Somalia which got assimilated by the somali's? Anyway, its all speculation on my part.

    REGIONAPPROXIMATE AMOUNT

    Africa 39%:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu 33%
    Africa North 5%

    America < 1%

    Asia 23%:
    Asia South 18%
    Asia central 3%
    asia east 2%

    Pacific Islander 1%:
    Melanesian 1%

    West Asia 36%
    Middle East 36%
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Btw, my cousin shows up with Finland/Northwest Russia and Africa South-Central Hunter-Gatherers. Just bellow noise region. Which doesn't show up with me on ancestry DNA, but in most gedmatch calculators.
    Last edited by Deftextra; 09-02-2015 at 03:15 PM.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra View Post
    That is what I noticed as-well. My African seems to mixed with Bantu. I googled a bit and it seems that there was a bantu population south of Somalia which got assimilated by the somali's?
    "Assimilated" is a loose term in this case, they were somewhat culturally & most certainly linguistically Somalized and loosely brought into the local clan structure but in a more "patronage" type of way. A clan would essentially allow them to "claim it" so they could be protected from other ethnic Somali clans. These people if I recall correctly would be called "Sheegad" ("claimers" or "pretenders" ); people who essentially attached themselves to a Somali clan and are protected by it but aren't ethnic Somalis. Assimilation in the sense that these ethnic Somali clans mixed with them didn't really happen / Southern Somalis don't really show signs of Bantu ancestry, seemingly even those in Kenya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defextra
    REGIONAPPROXIMATE AMOUNT

    Africa 39%:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu 33%
    Africa North 5%

    America < 1%

    Asia 23%:
    Asia South 18%
    Asia central 3%
    asia east 2%

    Pacific Islander 1%:
    Melanesian 1%

    West Asia 36%
    Middle East 36%
    This is sort of what I remember noticing when I ran you through calculators like Eurogenes K36 and some Oracles... But the Bantu wasn't that high. Instead you looked like you were 30-40% Somali-Oromo, ~20% South Asian and 20-30% West Asian ("Middle Eastern") with some Bantu ancestry. Your South Asian ancestry seems quite real though... You turn up as like ~10% Ancestral South Indian (ASI) in various runs and in various oracles will turn up with South-Central Asian populations as part of your mixed modes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra
    Btw, my cousin shows up with Finland/Northwest Russia and Africa South-Central Hunter-Gatherers. Just bellow noise region. Which doesn't show up with me on ancestry DNA, but in most gedmatch calculators.
    Doubt you have Eastern European ancestry but given your connections to Southeast Africa and the Horn of Africa and how you even showed "Omotic" in Eurogenes K36 (I have a feeling not all of your Horn African ancestry is "Somali"; there might be something Oromo-related about some of it but I could be wrong); I wouldn't be surprised by you having "African Hunter-Gatherer" ancestry ("Pygmy" & "Khoisan" related ancestry).

    --

    But could you answer me this... Are you a Reer Ḥamar? You implied this last we spoke at Forumbiodiversity and if you are then it would explain your mixed ancestry. Reer Ḥamars/ Benadiris are thought to basically be a mixture between Arabians, Somalis (and perhaps some Oromo-related ancestry), Iranians and Bantus. You only deviate from this with your oddly substantial South Asian ancestry but South Asian tradesman were not unheard of in the Horn since the Middle Ages.
    Last edited by Awale; 09-02-2015 at 05:24 PM.
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  19. #10
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    Yes I am.i was really surprised with the south Asian aswell, but I suspected it, because it's quite obvious in some of my brothers
    As I recall, ancestryDNA do not have Horner reference samples,which is why everything shows up as southeastern Bantu.
    I Though I might have distant eastern-euro ancestry, because my gedmatches are filled with eastern-euro's. But most matches (if not all) are fake because I'm under-represented in the database?
    Last edited by Deftextra; 09-02-2015 at 05:32 PM.

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