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Thread: What do you think the first humans looked like?

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    What do you think the first humans looked like?

    Hey everyone, I've been wondering, what did the first humans look like? Due to both populations being known to have more "archaic" DNA, I am wondering, could they have looked like the Khoisan bushmen of the Kalahari, or the aboriginal people of Australia? If so, more like which?

    Khoisan people:









    Australian Aboriginal People:







    In the 1990s, genomic studies of worlds peoples found that the Y chromosome of San men share certain patterns of polymorphisms that are distinct from those of all other populations. [10] Because the Y chromosome is highly conserved between generations, this type of DNA test is used to determine when different subgroups separated from one another, and hence their last common ancestry. The authors of these studies suggested that the San may have been one of the first populations to differentiate from the most recent common paternal ancestor of all extant humans, the so-called Y-chromosomal Adam by patrilineal descent, estimated to have lived 60,000 to 90,000 years ago.[11][12] The authors also note that their results should be interpreted as only finding that the Khoisan "preserve ancient lineages", and not that they "stopped evolving" or are an "ancient group", since subsequent changes in their population are in parallel and similar to those of all other human populations.[13]

    Various Y-chromosome studies [14][15][16] since confirmed that the Khoisan carry some of the most divergent (oldest) Y-chromosome haplogroups. These haplogroups are specific sub-groups of haplogroups A and B, the two earliest branches on the human Y-chromosome tree.

    Similar to findings from Y-Chromosome studies, mitochondrial DNA studies also showed evidence that the Khoe–San people carry high frequencies of the earliest haplogroup branches in the human mitochondrial DNA tree. The most divergent (oldest) mitochondrial haplogroup, L0d, have been identified at its highest frequencies in the southern African Khoe and San groups.[14][17][18][19] The distinctiveness of the Khoisan in both matrilineal and patrilineal groupings is a further indicator that they represent a population historically distinct from other Africans.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoisan

    Scholars had disagreed whether their closest kin outside Australia were certain South Asian groups or African groups. The latter would imply a migration pattern in which their ancestors passed through South Asia to Australia without intermingling genetically with other populations along the way.[15] A 2009 genetic study in India found similarities among Indian archaic populations and Aboriginal people, indicating a Southern migration route, with expanding populations from Southeast Asia migrating to Indonesia and Australia.

    In a genetic study in 2011, researchers found evidence, in DNA samples taken from strands of Aboriginal people's hair, that the ancestors of the Aboriginal population split off from the ancestors of the European and Asian populations between 65,000 and 75,000 years ago—roughly 24,000 years before the European and Asian populations split off from each other. These Aboriginal ancestors migrated into South Asia and then into Australia, where they stayed, with the result that, outside of Africa, the Aboriginal peoples have occupied the same territory continuously longer than any other human populations. These findings suggest that modern Aboriginal peoples are the direct descendants of migrants who left Africa up to 75,000 years ago.[16] [17] This finding is supported by earlier archaeological finds of human remains near Lake Mungo that date to 45,000 years ago. The same genetic study of 2011 found evidence that Aboriginal peoples carry some of the genes associated with the Denisovan peoples of Asia; the study suggests that there is an increase in allele sharing between the Denisovans and the Aboriginal Australians genome compared to other Eurasians and Africans. Examining DNA from the finger, researchers from the Harvard Medical School in the US and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany concluded that the Denisovans - a primitive group of humans descended from Neanderthals - migrated from Siberia to tropical parts of Asia. The researchers concluded that Denisovans interbred with modern humans in South-East Asia 44,000 years ago, before Australia separated from Papua New Guinea. They contributed DNA to Aboriginal Australians along with present-day New Guineans and an indigenous tribe in the Philippines known as Mamanwa. This study makes Aboriginal Australians one of the oldest living populations in the world and possibly the oldest outside of Africa, confirming they may also have the oldest continuous culture on the planet.[18] The Papuans have more sharing alleles than Aboriginal peoples. The data suggest that modern and archaic humans interbred in Asia before the migration to Australia.[19]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Australians

    So, I'm leaning towards the idea that the first humans looked more similar to Khoisans, because they seem to be purely descended from the earliest human lineages, and although Australian aboriginals are very archaic as well, they are still mixed with Denisovans, Neanderthal, and ethnicities that evolved out of Africa.

    Please share your opinion on this subject!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Hey everyone, I've been wondering, what did the first humans look like? Due to both populations being known to have more "archaic" DNA, I am wondering, could they have looked like the Khoisan bushmen of the Kalahari, or the aboriginal people of Australia? If so, more like which?
    "Archaic ancestry" is ancestry from non-human, but related breeds. So, the first humans were not archaic. Archaic ancestry if anything makes people today look less like the first humans. San/Bushman don't have Archaic-Eurasian ancestry as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    So, I'm leaning towards the idea that the first humans looked more similar to Khoisans, because they seem to be purely descended from the earliest human lineages, and although Australian aboriginals are very archaic as well, they are still mixed with Denisovans, Neanderthal, and ethnicities that evolved out of Africa.

    Please share your opinion on this subject!
    San are genetically more isolated than other humans, but all humans descend from the same early human lineage. We all evolved parallel to each other. Because SouthEast Asian and Australians have Black Skin+Kinky hair like Africans, but are genetically Eurasian and closest to East Asians, I think it's likely the first humans had Black Skin+Kinky hair.

    I don't expect any humans today to closely resemble the first humans in skeletal and other features. There are clear distinct East Asian-features, West Eurasian features(inclu. distinct European features, Middle Eastern features), the San have distinct features, pictures of Papuan I've seen look to have distinct facial features. Most humans probably evolved new features that are unlike what the first humans had.

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    The honest answer is that we dont know, chances are they looked like a distinct group that doesnt resemble any modern races

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    The honest answer is that we dont know, chances are they looked like a distinct group that doesnt resemble any modern races
    I lean more towards they probably had the whole range of facial features that we see today, or a big hodgepodge of it within one family or even one individual.

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    Regarding the San
    https://www.newscientist.com/article...vealed-in-dna/
    Not so isolated: Khoisan tribes have European DNA (Image: Ariadne Van Zandbergen/Alamy)
    Call it humanity’s unexpected U-turn.

    ...
    According to conventional thinking, the Khoisan tribes of southern Africa, have lived in near-isolation from the rest of humanity for thousands of years. In fact, the study shows that some of their DNA matches most closely people from modern-day southern Europe, including Spain and Italy.

    Because Eurasian people also carry traces of Neanderthal DNA, the finding also shows – for the first time – that genetic material from our extinct cousin may be widespread in African populations.
    ...
    signs of western Eurasian genes in 32 individuals belonging to a variety of Khoisan tribes. “I think we were shocked,” says Reich.

    The unexpected snippets of DNA most resembled sequences from southern Europeans, including Sardinians, Italians and people from the Basque region ...

    Back to Africa – but from where?

    Reich and his colleagues found that DNA sequences in the Khoisan people most closely resemble some found in people who today live in southern Europe. That, however, does not mean the migration back to Africa started in Italy or Spain. More likely, the migration began in what is now the Middle East.

    We know that southern Europeans can trace their ancestry to the Middle East. However, in the thousands of years since they – and the ancestors of the Khoisan – left the region, it has experienced several waves of immigration. These waves have had a significant effect on the genes of people living in the Middle East today, and means southern Europeans are much closer to the original inhabitants of the Levant than modern-day Middle Easterners.

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    Some Khoisan people also basically have Cushitic ancestry:


    http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/201...-cushitic.html


    But there are some isolated groups bereft of either Bantu, Cushitic or European admixture who are basically as Krefter described.

    ---

    As for the general thread subject:

    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    The honest answer is that we dont know
    This... I'm willing to bet they had straight hair though if other great apes are any indication.
    Last edited by Awale; 08-10-2015 at 07:45 PM.
    فار عارابإ آ واجإب اه

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    What evidence is there that modern middle eastern populations are less native? So some EEF made their way to south africa (we know they were present in north africa) . Most likely ancestral to berbers. That means middle-easterners are less native? Warped logic.

    From what remember the west eurasian signal in East africans resemble the SW pastoralists the most. Not EEFs. Some studies point to a back immigration by a west eurasian group. But they don't point to EEF's. But an unknown population.
    Last edited by Arbogan; 08-19-2015 at 08:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbogan View Post
    What evidence is there that modern middle eastern populations are less native? So some EEF made their way to south africa (we know they were present in north africa) . Most likely ancestral to berbers. That means middle-easterners are less native? Warped logic.

    From what remember the west eurasian signal in East africans resemble the SW pastoralists the most. Not EEFs. Some studies point to a back immigration by a west eurasian group. But they don't point to EEF's. But an unknown population.
    Its funny how they call the ancestral population european. They only contain some ENF, but lack ANE or WHG. The SW asian pastoralists were a mixture of ENF and basal eurasian. Much of the so called "eurasian" admixture in africa is mostly Basal eurasian and not West eurasian. The back migration they are talking about is one that took place 3000 YBP, which was semetic. But there was an earlier back migration that took place 23KYA. Where most of the eurasian admixture in the horn came from this earlier migration.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/06...ixture-in.html

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    Some relevant D-Stats

    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Stuttgart Ust'-Ishim -0.0078 -3.196
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Sardinian Ust'-Ishim -0.0074 -3.954

    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Motala12 Ust'-Ishim -0.0042 -1.776
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba MA-1 Ust'-Ishim -0.0040 -1.609
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Loschbour Ust'-Ishim -0.0068 -2.720
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba La_Brana-1 Ust'-Ishim -0.0062 -2.383
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Kostenki14 Ust'-Ishim -0.0025 -0.946
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Kalash Ust'-Ishim -0.0063 -3.181
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba Dai Ust'-Ishim -0.0043 -2.161
    MbutiPygmy Yoruba BedouinB Ust'-Ishim -0.0068 -3.696


    MbutiPygmy Hadza Stuttgart Ust'-Ishim -0.0077 -2.056
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Sardinian Ust'-Ishim -0.0103 -3.920
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Motala12 Ust'-Ishim -0.0132 -3.748
    MbutiPygmy Hadza MA-1 Ust'-Ishim -0.0026 -0.695
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Loschbour Ust'-Ishim -0.0076 -2.165
    MbutiPygmy Hadza La_Brana-1 Ust'-Ishim -0.0104 -2.907
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Kostenki14 Ust'-Ishim -0.0035 -0.943
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Kalash Ust'-Ishim -0.0072 -2.670
    MbutiPygmy Hadza Dai Ust'-Ishim -0.0033 -1.228
    MbutiPygmy Hadza BedouinB Ust'-Ishim -0.0078 -2.994

    Chimp Somali EHG Loschbour 0.0063 1.319 341763
    Chimp Somali EHG MA1 -0.0196 -3.424 247305
    Chimp Somali MA1 Loschbour 0.0246 4.301 251027
    Last edited by Kale; 08-19-2015 at 01:55 PM.

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    Is it possible early humans look like chimpanzee but with some human like features like walking on two legs?

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