Page 2 of 46 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 460

Thread: R1b-M343 Backbone SNP Pack FTDNA

  1. #11
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    347
    Sex
    Location
    Ohio
    Ethnicity
    German
    Nationality
    Galactic Empire
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z324, Z5055, L188+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Z18 doesn't need 3 SNPs to represent it on the backbone. From the existing panel results only one was needed. Those other 2 slots should be considered for other regions under R1b.

    Getting a backbone result of Z9+ for 25 or 37 markers doesn't help us figure out which of two potential panels the individual should test for. This means the backbone is not really going to feed the panels representing the Z9 branch. We need 67 markers to see if they are null425's and drop into that large cluster. We have a lot of people that are tested at less than 37 markers.

    Let's ask for one of the Z18 region SNPs to be removed today and replaced with Z326.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cofgene For This Useful Post:

     lgmayka (07-29-2015),  Michał (07-29-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015)

  3. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,292
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Cofgene View Post
    ....
    Getting a backbone result of Z9+ for 25 or 37 markers doesn't help us figure out which of two potential panels the individual should test for. This means the backbone is not really going to feed the panels representing the Z9 branch. We need 67 markers to see if they are null425's and drop into that large cluster. We have a lot of people that are tested at less than 37 markers.
    I agree that 67 STRs is essential and am very consistent in saying that everyone in R1b (unless your brother has already done so) needs to get to 67 STRs. Please read the background web pages of the R1b project.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    In fact, the project subgroupings include these two expressly there to encourage STR upgrades: "Uat67" and "Uneed67".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cofgene View Post
    Let's ask for one of the Z18 region SNPs to be removed today and replaced with Z326.
    Please do not ask for any SNPs to be removed. It only diminishes the value of the test which means value to the project members. The price will not be lowered by removing SNPs. I have asked for Z326 to be added even though it is down a couple of layers and it isn't as early in its branching.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     Clinton P (07-29-2015),  Michał (07-29-2015),  rms2 (07-29-2015)

  5. #13
    Banned
    Posts
    13,888
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z253>BY93500
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    It looks pretty good to me, although I do agree it is a pity that DF27 couldn't be squeezed in somehow. Guess that one is a tougher nut to crack than the other major branch SNPs.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     corner (07-29-2015),  lgmayka (07-29-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015),  rod (07-30-2015)

  7. #14
    Registered Users
    Posts
    779
    Sex
    Location
    Waterville, ME
    Ethnicity
    Great Migration Colonists
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2g (FMS)
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1a-P109 (23andMe)
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b3 (23andMe)

    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    Gauging from the other SNP packs which FTDNA has released, we have to expect some of the SNPs included will not work properly. My understanding is even FTDNA cannot know in advance which SNPs will work, and which SNPs will not. They can (and have) done some "front-end" testing and determined some SNPs (such as DF27) could not be made available, but they actually need to run a batch of tests to see which SNPs are failing.

    Again, past experience from other SNP packs, most failures are fairly easy to identify (everyone positive or everyone negative). However, I have seen in at least one SNP pack (Z18) a couple of anomalous SNP results (a couple of negative results for SNPs that should be positive as they are positive for subclades). While these anomalous results are concerning, we must remember that every type of SNP testing has the possibility of such anomalous results. The U106 Project has seen cases where a positive SNP result sometimes does not show up (in the bed/vcf file) but does show up in the BAM file. In addition, even Sanger-sequencing is not fool-proof (L128 had to be removed from ISOGG as Sanger-sequencing has been found to be unreliable for this SNP).

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Wing Genealogist For This Useful Post:

     dp (07-29-2015),  lgmayka (07-29-2015),  Michał (07-29-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015),  rms2 (07-29-2015),  VinceT (07-29-2015)

  9. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    205
    Sex
    Location
    North Yorkshire
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1d1c

    England
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    It looks pretty good to me, although I do agree it is a pity that DF27 couldn't be squeezed in somehow. Guess that one is a tougher nut to crack than the other major branch SNPs.
    YSEQ.net don't appear to have any trouble with DF27. Their 'YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel' includes it.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to corner For This Useful Post:

     lgmayka (07-29-2015),  Michał (07-29-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015),  rms2 (07-29-2015)

  11. #16
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,292
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by corner View Post
    YSEQ.net don't appear to have any trouble with DF27. Their 'YSEQ R1b Orientation Panel' includes it.
    You can buy DF27 separately under Sanger Sequencing/Advanced Tests from FTDNA.

    This needs to be double checked, but I think all of these early branching SNPs within DF27 are there.

    A4670
    CTS10429
    CTS11567
    DF81
    DF83
    F2691
    FGC20761
    L617
    L881
    Y5058
    Z225
    Z2573
    Z195
    Z296
    DF17
    Z209
    Z198
    Z262
    SRY2627

    Particularly, since Z195 is included, the only concern is true DF27* people, which may be a very small group. However, even this isn't much of a concern relative to everybody else in R1b. Here's why:

    If a person comes out of this test P312+ L21- U152- L238- DF19- DF99- and negative for the DF27 subclade SNPS above they are actually home free. I'm not DF27, but if I were to take this M343 Backbone test, I'd come out with positives for the backbone leading down to P312 and L21 and then have my L513+. I'm not done either. I have to go buy an L513 pack or panel as the final step.

    In the case of the M343 Backbone true DF27* person, they'd be P312+ L21- U152- L238- DF19- DF99- and have one additional step too, but their step would be cheaper. The only thing they can do is buy an individual DF27 test at FTDNA or wherever you want, but it would be cheaper than any pack/panel.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 07-29-2015 at 01:25 PM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (07-29-2015)

  13. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,292
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    Gauging from the other SNP packs which FTDNA has released, we have to expect some of the SNPs included will not work properly....
    They have both an algorithm/on paper review step on SNPs to be included and then some kind of lab test run before they decide an SNP can be included. I expect that FTDNA is getting better on this as they've been doing packs for almost a year now, but I would agree there is likely some kind of fall-out and adjustments needed.

  14. #18
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,718
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Particularly, since Z195 is included, the only concern is true DF27* people, which may be a very small group.
    ...
    If a person comes out of this test P312+ L21- U152- L238- DF19- DF99- and negative for the DF27 subclade SNPS above they are actually home free.
    The DF27 clade is a continuously expanding target. Your list does not include the ancient and mysterious BY653 clade, found so far only in Ukraine and the British Isles.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 07-29-2015 at 02:41 PM.

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to lgmayka For This Useful Post:

     corner (07-29-2015),  Dubhthach (07-29-2015),  Gray Fox (07-30-2015),  Michał (07-29-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015)

  16. #19
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,775
    Sex
    Location
    Dún Laoire, Bláth Cliath, Éire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    Éireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Tús maith leath na hOibre (Good start is half the work) as the old proverb goes. Good to see DF41 been finally added to their tree, it was only available to test 6 months or so before CTS2501 apart from that I'm assuming they'll upgrade their tree once the first batch of results start coming in?
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

  17. #20
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,068
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA (M)
    T2f3

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Particularly, since Z195 is included, the only concern is true DF27* people, which may be a very small group.
    I disagree. To me, it looks pretty useless for DF27. About half of the DF27 project members are Z195+, or subclades thereof that are tested (and have been for some years, so the people in those subclades tend already to know that). But DF27 itself isn't (as usual); and most of the newly discovered subclades of DF27 that are Z195- aren't.

    Actually the latter aren't especially well covered by the YSEQ panel for DF27, either. Thomas at least tried, and I was trying to help him. But he wanted to launch it in March, and we have still been discovering big branching points through July. I wouldn't be surprised if we could come up with a pretty effective DF27 panel test within the next few months, but even then we'll still be discovering things that it has omitted. Being thorough and being quick aren't 100% compatible goals.

    The new M343 Backbone test wasn't designed to cater to specific haplogroups downstream of L11, and I concur with the opinions already expressed by U106 and U152 admins (at least), that our respective project members needn't bother with it.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to razyn For This Useful Post:

     Gray Fox (07-30-2015),  paulgill (07-31-2015),  rod (07-30-2015)

Page 2 of 46 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 01-14-2019, 06:37 PM
  2. My result R1b - M343(xM269) SNP Pack
    By Vrump in forum FTDNA
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-20-2017, 09:02 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-02-2015, 08:06 PM
  4. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 10-29-2015, 10:06 AM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-10-2015, 03:23 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •