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Thread: Blood of the Celts (2015)

  1. #91
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    Jean,

    I have only had your book for about 20 minutes and I am blown away!

    I think I must have just got VERY lucky. The chart on Pg 8 was made to order (my comment up thread). As always wonderful charts and maps. (ie.: Pg 44-45)

    But nothing could have prepared me for the chart on pg 208. Of my 8 2nd great grandfathers 2 are covered in this chart FRANKLIN who are CTS6919 and closely related to MacFarlane and my Royal STEWART line. When I started doing genealogy over 40 years ago one family legend said that my 2nd great grandmother received a $3,000 inheritance and a book on the Royal Stewarts---turns out the line is indeed connected to the Royal STEWARTS. You also manage to get in my L21-M222 (PADEN) line. That and covering my WHEATONS in U152 (my husband and me way far back). Did I die and go to heaven?

    Thank you---you made at least one reader very, very happy!

    I'll have more feedback when I have a chance to read and digest.
    Bravo!

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwheaton View Post
    But nothing could have prepared me for the chart on pg 208. Of my 8 2nd great grandfathers 2 are covered in this chart FRANKLIN who are CTS6919 and closely related to MacFarlane and my Royal STEWART line.
    You have really cheered me up. That makes me feel a lot better about including a surnames appendix. It won't give everyone what they want, but there are a few stories in there to encourage people to join FTDNA surname projects and the like.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-03-2015 at 02:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    You have really cheered me up. That makes me feel a lot better about including a surnames appendix. It won't give everyone what they want, but their are a few stories in there to encourage people to join FTDNA surname projects and the like.
    I lied that is 3: STEWART, FRANKLIN and PADEN.

    Jean,
    The way you used them was as an illustration of the possibilities of tying surnames into the greater Celtic history. In fact from what I have read so far that is the strength of the book. If you don't mind me saying it--- I think it is much more readable than AJ as the way you weave the story in with the evidence makes a much more compelling and interesting read. Don't get me wrong, you know I liked AJ but that was like the skeleton and this is like the flesh and sinew....the heart of the human story. Not only that I think this has the potential to reach a broader audience.

    The average person does not understand why a bunch of bones, or pottery shards matters. This presents the history of a culture or identity that very much lives today in our genes and in our traditions. And we live in a time where we are able to unlock many of the past's secrets by using DNA--- whether it be of plants, animals or humans. The parallels with our past are striking.

    I am taking my time reading Blood of the Celts. Like Ancestral Journeys those looking for a treatise on their Haplogroup aren't going to find it. I just got lucky in that you happened to use a couple of mine for illustration. Honestly I nearly fell out of my chair. This insures some folks will be getting a particular book for Christmas. Luckily thy don't follow these threads.

    Don't get discouraged...this is a tough crowd. From what I have read you have done an excellent job of synthesizing a complex topic and for that we all should be grateful.

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    I've received the book this morning, and spent three hours to read through it. I have to finish Greenberg t1 before working on the Blood. In any case, obviously, there has been a lot of water under the bridge since Sykes wrote : ""I can see no evidence at all of a large scale immigration from central Europe to Ireland and the west of the Isles generally, such as been used to explain the presence there of the main body of 'Gaels' or 'Celts'. The 'Celts' of Ireland and the Western Isles are not, as far as I can see from the genetic evidence, related to the Celts who spread south and east to Italy, Greece and Turkey from the heartlands of Hallstatt and La Tène in the shadows of the Alps during the first millennium BC. The people of the Isles who now feel themselves to be Celts have far deeper roots in the Isles than that and, as far as I can see, their ancestors have been here for several thousand years" .
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    I've received the book this morning, and spent three hours to read through it. I have to finish Greenberg t1 before working on the Blood. In any case, obviously, there has been a lot of water under the bridge since Sykes wrote : ""I can see no evidence at all of a large scale immigration from central Europe to Ireland and the west of the Isles generally, such as been used to explain the presence there of the main body of 'Gaels' or 'Celts'. The 'Celts' of Ireland and the Western Isles are not, as far as I can see from the genetic evidence, related to the Celts who spread south and east to Italy, Greece and Turkey from the heartlands of Hallstatt and La Tène in the shadows of the Alps during the first millennium BC. The people of the Isles who now feel themselves to be Celts have far deeper roots in the Isles than that and, as far as I can see, their ancestors have been here for several thousand years" .
    Yes you are correct in that the early inhabitants of the isles.....Those of 5 to 10 thousand years ago or more, are awaiting their time in the sun. The further we move back in time though, the less evidence we have to go on. It is not unlikely that these early inhabitants like almost every other population under the sun, may have vestiges in our DNA just as we have Neanderthal and Dennsovian. But it also may be true that depending on how successful any group of invaders, Celts, Saxons, Vikings etc they may be over or under represented in our genes. As Jean mentions briefly the Bretons "Most probably some were returning to the land of their ancestors." p210. I wonder over the course of history how many times that happens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Sykes wrote : " The people of the Isles who now feel themselves to be Celts have far deeper roots in the Isles than that and, as far as I can see, their ancestors have been here for several thousand years"
    I actually agree with Sykes on this, since I argue that the first Celtic-speakers arrived in the Isles with Late Bell Beaker c. 2200 BC (nearly 4000 years ago) rather than with La Tène which arrived c. 450 BC (2465 years ago) in Britain and in Ireland not much before 300 BC (2315 years ago).

    As I say in the Prologue, all Europeans have elements in our DNA of the three broad component parts of the European gene pool: Western hunter-gatherers, early European farmers and a Copper Age people.

    The problem lies in disentangling them for specific individuals or populations, by which I mean that Celtic-speakers would have arrived in the Isles already carrying some DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers. Then in the Isles they would encounter people carrying DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers.

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  13. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    I actually agree with Sykes on this, since I argue that the first Celtic-speakers arrived in the Isles with Late Bell Beaker c. 2200 BC (nearly 4000 years ago) rather than with La Tène which arrived c. 450 BC (2465 years ago) in Britain and in Ireland not much before 300 BC (2315 years ago).

    As I say in the Prologue, all Europeans have elements in our DNA of the three broad component parts of the European gene pool: Western hunter-gatherers, early European farmers and a Copper Age people.

    The problem lies in disentangling them for specific individuals or populations, by which I mean that Celtic-speakers would have arrived in the Isles already carrying some DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers. Then in the Isles they would encounter people carrying DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers.
    The problem lies in the word "several" ( in "........ for several thousand years..."). It's far too vague. The quotation of Sykes (from his book "Saxons, Celts and Vikings") is used by the followers of Mario Alinei on the official site of the PaleoContinuity theory in support of this theory. I doubt that they could find in your book anything in line with the PCT.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    I doubt that they could find in your book anything in line with the PCT.
    I certainly hope not. I am completely opposed to PCT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    I actually agree with Sykes on this, since I argue that the first Celtic-speakers arrived in the Isles with Late Bell Beaker c. 2200 BC (nearly 4000 years ago) rather than with La Tène which arrived c. 450 BC (2465 years ago) in Britain and in Ireland not much before 300 BC (2315 years ago).

    As I say in the Prologue, all Europeans have elements in our DNA of the three broad component parts of the European gene pool: Western hunter-gatherers, early European farmers and a Copper Age people.

    The problem lies in disentangling them for specific individuals or populations, by which I mean that Celtic-speakers would have arrived in the Isles already carrying some DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers. Then in the Isles they would encounter people carrying DNA from hunter-gatherers and early European farmers.
    Of course, what Sykes meant is something far different from what you mean. He was basically saying that insular Celts weren't "true Celts" but were rather the descendants of Basque-like people who began arriving in the Isles soon after the LGM. That was already hardened orthodoxy when I ordered my first 37-marker y-dna test from FTDNA back in 2006.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Of course, what Sykes meant is something far different from what you mean. He was basically saying that insular Celts weren't "true Celts" but were rather the descendants of Basque-like people who began arriving in the Isles soon after the LGM. That was already hardened orthodoxy when I ordered my first 37-marker y-dna test from FTDNA back in 2006.
    Exactly. And that's the reason why I told that there has been a lot of water under the bridge. I'm not sure, but I seem to know that this old "iberian-fantasy" is today completely abandoned (excepted of course by a few amateurs, but that's unsignificant).
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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