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Thread: U5 diversity in Finland

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    U5 diversity in Finland

    We currently have 113 FMS test results from Finland (including the samples from the 1000 Genomes Project). It is interesting that there is very little diversity in the Finnish U5 distribution, especially when considering U5b. Nearly 40% of the Finnish U5 are in U5b1b1a (the "Saami motif"). This subclade is also found in eastern Europe and might have arrived in Finland by an eastern European route (perhaps along with haplogroup V as suggested by Tambets et al., 2004 (link). In that paper they refer to the Saami motif with 16144 as "U5b1b1".

    23% of the Finnish U5 samples are in U5b1b2. This group seems to have a more western origin with 3 samples from Ireland or England and one each from Germany, Norway and Sweden. It might have arrived in Finland by a more westerly route. Perhaps some of the diversity in U5b was lost by bottlenecks and drift, although perhaps migration and replacement by eastern European and Asian mtDNA haplogroups are partly responsible for the lack of diversity in U5b in Finland.


    Finland 113
    U5b1 0
    U5b1a 0
    U5b1b 0
    U5b1b1a 45 39.8%
    U5b1b2 26 23.0%
    U5b1c 0
    U5b1d 0
    U5b1e 0
    U5b1f 0
    U5b1g 0
    U5b2a 11 9.7%
    U5b2b 0
    U5b2c 0
    U5b3 0

    U5a1a1 3 2.7%
    U5a1b 8 7.1%
    U5a1* 0
    U5a2a1 15 13.3%
    U5a2b 3 2.7%
    U5a2* 2 1.8%

  2. #2
    J Man
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    My father's direct maternal line os from Finland and he is U5b1b1a1 according to 23andme. His maternal line ancestors came from the Isojoki area of Finland. It seems that U5b1b1a1 is quite limited to Finns and the Saami people.

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    [QUOTE=GailT;2418] Nearly 40% of the Finnish U5 are in U5b1b1a (the "Saami motif").

    I am completely new to this, having received my results from 23andme only recently. My mtDNA is U5b1b1a.

    My mother's parents were both from Norway and are Norwegian for many generations. Does the fact that I have the Saami motif mean that somewhere along the maternal line, I have a Saami ancestor?
    Thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEM View Post
    My mother's parents were both from Norway and are Norwegian for many generations. Does the fact that I have the Saami motif mean that somewhere along the maternal line, I have a Saami ancestor?
    Thank you
    I don't think we can answer this question yet. U5b1b1a is found at large percentages among the Saami, but it is also found throughout Scandinavia, and also at low percentages in eastern Europe. The key question is how did it arrive in Scandinavia - did it arrive with the Saami? Or did it arrive by another route and was then adopted into the Saami? I think the latter explanation might be more likely, but ultimately I hope testing of ancient DNA will provide a more certain answer.

    One thing is certain - many of the early conclusions about mtDNA haplogroup origins that were based on present day distributions were overly naive and, at least in some cases, almost certainly incorrect.

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    There is extensive ancient DNA testing in NE Europe/NW Russsia, and also an 18th century Saami cemetery, from a PhD dissertation just made available (link).

    What remains uncertain is whether U5b1b1a is found exclusively in the Saami, or if it is found throughout Scandinavians. It could have been adopted into the Saami from the non Saami population, and then become dominant among the Saami from population bottlenecks and drift. The western migration seems unlikely because the other present day reservoir of U5b1b1a is in eastern Europe, so perhaps a migration from eastern Europe via the Baltic region is more likely.

    Genetic continuity with modern-day Saami was evident for the 18th
    century A.D. (200 yBP) Chalmny-Varre individuals. The widespread modern-day
    distribution of U5b1 and V lineages makes it difficult to identify the places of origin
    for the founders of the Saami (Tambets et al., 2004). Despite its clear association with
    Saami ancestry, the ‘Saami motif’ has also been found at low frequency (below 1%) in
    a wide range of non-Saami populations of Europe. This justified sampling ancient
    populations of NE-E such as Uznyi Oleni Ostrov/Popovo, and Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov
    in the modern-day homeland of the Saami. The absence of these lineages in ancient
    populations of European foragers suggests that the migration(s) that brought U5b1 and
    V north occurred later than the Bronze Age or that their genetic impact on the
    surrounding populations was weak. Another possibility is that these lineages reached
    Fennoscandia from western Europe along the western coast of Norway, hence in
    isolation from the post-glacial populations of east and north east Europe (Tambets et
    al., 2004). The only way to test this hypothesis and track Saami-specific lineages is by
    sampling ancient populations along the proposed alternative western migration route
    into sub-arctic Europe. This would also provide insight into the demographic history
    of the Saami that is difficult to reconstruct on the basis of modern genetic data alone.
    Saami mtDNA diversity has supposedly been strongly influenced by founder events,
    multiple bottlenecks and reproductive isolation, probably in response to the
    challenging conditions of life in the subarctic taiga/tundra. Unless changes in their
    genetic makeup are followed in temporally sampled populations, the origins and
    population history of the Saami will certainly remain veiled with mystery.

  6. #6
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    There is extensive ancient DNA testing in NE Europe/NW Russsia, and also an 18th century Saami cemetery, from a PhD dissertation just made available (link).

    What remains uncertain is whether U5b1b1a is found exclusively in the Saami, or if it is found throughout Scandinavians. It could have been adopted into the Saami from the non Saami population, and then become dominant among the Saami from population bottlenecks and drift. The western migration seems unlikely because the other present day reservoir of U5b1b1a is in eastern Europe, so perhaps a migration from eastern Europe via the Baltic region is more likely.
    Very interesting stuff Gail indeed. Thank you for sharing. Do they give the frequencies of U5b1b1a1 and V in these Saami samples from the 18th century cemetery? Also do they break the subclades down to the level such as ''U5b1b1a1''? Or are they just listed as U5b?

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    Iraq Iran Iran Safavid Empire
    I am U5b1b1a from Iraq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqain View Post
    I am U5b1b1a from Iraq.
    If you tested at FTDNA, you can join the U5 and U5b FGS project, and I can check to see if you match any of the project members. U5b1b1a is also found at low frequency throughout eastern Europe. It's interesting that were not U5b1b1a samples in the recent Danish study which includes 164 U5 samples. That might also indicate a relatively recent migration from eastern Europe.

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    Iraq Iran Iran Safavid Empire
    I tested with 23andme not FTDNA. I got 0.4% Finnish on my Ancestry Composition.
    Last edited by Iraqain; 10-18-2013 at 06:49 AM.

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    Iraq Iran Iran Safavid Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    If you tested at FTDNA, you can join the U5 and U5b FGS project, and I can check to see if you match any of the project members. U5b1b1a is also found at low frequency throughout eastern Europe. It's interesting that were not U5b1b1a samples in the recent Danish study which includes 164 U5 samples. That might also indicate a relatively recent migration from eastern Europe.
    I tested with 23andme not FTDNA. I got 0.4% Finnish on my Ancestry Composition.

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