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Thread: Study Reveals Genetic Path of Modern Britons

  1. #1
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    Study Reveals Genetic Path of Modern Britons

    I thought this was really interesting such as the distinct Celtic fringe populations and especially, one of the last points they made that some of the genetics show events that are not recorded in history (which is written by the victor) but never the less, obviously happened some time in the past

    "The migrations revealed in that way match the known historical record but also point to events that have not been recorded, such as a massive migration from northern France that accounts for about one-third of the ancestry of the average person in Britain."

    I am very curious about this northern France thing...any idea's about it?

    anyway, here is the article...


    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/sc...tons.html?_r=1

    Mike
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    You will want to read the information in the paper http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re14230-s1.pdf

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    Thanks J1
    a bit difficult for a non scientist to follow, but the gist of my question seems to be a few/several hundred years before the roman occupation...I wonder if it was linked to the pressure the romans and germanics were putting on the large Celtic population in western/northern europe in the centuries prior to Caesar

    M
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    Not at all surprised by the low impact of "Viking" DNA, as is usually the case with peripheral invasion groups, they tend to be very few in numbers, same elite dominance pattern..


    also:
    http://dienekes.blogspot.no/2015/03/...t-al-2015.html

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    British DNA gives window into ancient past, Vikings and all

    NEW YORK (AP) — Genetic samples collected from across the United Kingdom are shedding light on the ancient past, including Viking invasions and a mystery about the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons, researchers report.

    The DNA also suggests that, genetically speaking, people in Wales are the closest matches to early settlers of Britain after the last ice age, people who began showing up some 10,000 to 11,000 years ago.

    That's because the Welsh genetic material has been the least affected by later migrations, said Peter Donnelly of Oxford University, a key author of the research.

    The work is presented in a paper released Wednesday by the journal Nature.

    The researchers studied DNA samples from 2,039 white residents of Britain and Northern Ireland, chosen for their family roots in rural areas. The DNA they inherited from their grandparents reflects the genetic landscape of those areas in the late 1880s, researchers said.

    To identify signs of ancient immigrations, the researchers consulted DNA samples taken from continental Europeans.

    Analysis showed that Danish Vikings, who occupied and controlled a large part of England after invading in the year 865, have left no clear genetic heritage today. That suggests they didn't settle in large numbers, Donnelly said in an email.

    The study also weighed in on the question of what happened after Anglo-Saxons migrated into Britain from Europe, which began in the fifth century. After they showed up, their language, cereal crops and pottery styles replaced those of the existing British population.

    So was the British population wiped out or elbowed aside? Or did it simply adopt cultural practices of a few new arrivals?

    The new study argues instead that a substantial number of Anglo-Saxons showed up and intermingled with the locals, said study co-author Mark Robinson of Oxford. That's because the study found a clear but limited Anglo-Saxon genetic legacy.

    ___

    Online:
    http://news.yahoo.com/british-dna-gi...180200969.html

    the above based on

    The fine-scale genetic structure of the British population
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture14230.html
    Last edited by rock hunter; 03-19-2015 at 12:08 AM.

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    Are the WELSH the truest Brits? English genomes share German and French DNA

    Are the WELSH the truest Brits? English genomes share German and French DNA - while Romans and Vikings left no trace
    Scientists find modern Britain can be divided into 17 distinct genetic 'clans'
    The Welsh have the most DNA from the original settlers of the British Isles
    English genomes are a quarter German and 45 per cent French in origin
    French DNA dates from before the Norman conquests of Britain in 1066
    Despite their reputation for raping the Vikings left little trace of their DNA
    The ancient Romans also left little of their DNA behind after their conquest
    People in Cornwall and Devon form two distinct groups that rarely mixed
    Their legacy lives on in roads, amphitheatres and even our calendar. But one thing the Romans did not leave behind was their DNA.
    The most detailed genetic analysis of Britain's past has failed to find any trace of genes from the Roman occupation of Britain.
    Similarly, the Vikings may have a reputation for rape and pillage but the genetic evidence tells a different story.

    European ancestry.jpg
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz3UmozzND9
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    Sorry U.K. Celts, You're Probably Not ,, with chart

    Whither The Celts?

    In the 1980s there was a terrific British documentary called simply "The Celts", made because of ongoing fascination by entitled western elites with indigenous people and perhaps the lingering hope/fear that maybe they were somehow better than the winners.

    The Celts were a blanket name for a lot of people who were just The Other to Romans, any number of tribes that the Romans ascribed names to based on region. They were basically a kind of "dark matter" for ancient authors, who didn't know what they were or how to figure them out, but knew they have to have existed because Caesar fought someone in France and Germany and he took really good notes.

    For the most part, though we call them Celts, they never did very much together and, when they did, it was brief and violent and then they all went back home and got on with their lives.

    If that sounds a lot like Scots of 1100 AD-yesterday, it should, because they claim Celtic descent.

    Short fights, grabbing some loot and going home may be where the similarity ends, though. A lot of people claiming Celtic ancestry in the UK are just as English as the English, finds a new study. And the methodology was solid. They found 2,039 Caucasians in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland whose four grandparents all lived reasonably close together (within 50 miles of each other) and were of Celtic descent, which got rid of the immigration factor and avoided the impact of outliers. They compared relevant single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) to 6,209 samples from 10 countries on the Continent.

    Genetic differentiation patterns in the ancestry profiles showed, Celtic ancestry belief or not, they are as different from other people claiming Celtic ancestry as they are the Saxon invaders who came later. They do, however, share genetic heritage with people of the same region, as you would expect.

    So Orkney is different from the rest of the UK, no surprise there, nor is there a surprise that ancestry profiles match other historical events, like the invasions by Saxons and then Normans. What was a surprise, they say, is that the genetic differences are not more pronounced.


    You can still see Celts in Civilization Revolution

    Just because there is no 'Celtic' in a lot of places that think they are Celtic does not mean there were no tribes, and that those will not be genetically meaningful. My family has been in America since the 1800s but with a name like Campbell I am sure to have someone who knows how to headbutt in my past and if someone from Clan Donald comes around I will still pick an argument with them, but that is more for cultural heritage than the biological kind.

    http://www.science20.com/science_20/...bly_not-154112

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    Is there a chance the Damish component is buried in the Saxon one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rossa View Post
    Is there a chance the Damish component is buried in the Saxon one?
    The Danish component is the navy blue component on figure two and seems pretty prominent among English samples all around and lowest in Wales and Western Scotland. For some reason the orange component is spotty and is absent or very low in several of the English population sets.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 03-19-2015 at 01:21 AM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rock hunter View Post
    Are the WELSH the truest Brits? English genomes share German and French DNA - while Romans and Vikings left no trace
    Scientists find modern Britain can be divided into 17 distinct genetic 'clans'
    The Welsh have the most DNA from the original settlers of the British Isles
    English genomes are a quarter German and 45 per cent French in origin
    French DNA dates from before the Norman conquests of Britain in 1066
    Despite their reputation for raping the Vikings left little trace of their DNA
    The ancient Romans also left little of their DNA behind after their conquest
    People in Cornwall and Devon form two distinct groups that rarely mixed
    Their legacy lives on in roads, amphitheatres and even our calendar. But one thing the Romans did not leave behind was their DNA.
    The most detailed genetic analysis of Britain's past has failed to find any trace of genes from the Roman occupation of Britain.
    Similarly, the Vikings may have a reputation for rape and pillage but the genetic evidence tells a different story.
    The lighter blue component seems the older of the two blue "French" components. Rather than saying these two groups didn't "mix", it makes more sense that the ancestry related to the darker blue arrived in Britain later, and made little impact on Wales. The lighter blue is also higher in Scotland and N.Ireland which is geographically further away and would have been affected less by later "French" immigrants.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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