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Thread: Albanian DNA Project

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon orange View Post
    I was refering to using the term Albanian to describe modern day Albanians. If there was a tribe called the Albani, I do not see eveidence it was the term for the people as a whole. Albanian is modern.
    Britain, I think was once called Albion, that does not connect to Albanians either....

    The reason for my post was another users assertion that because the Greeks, Romans did not mention specifically a people called Albanians in the Balkans, ergo they did not exist there in that time period. Hence the Albanians are a more modern migrant group to the Balkans.
    Yes I understand, often names are coincidence, but we also know that sometimes widely separated names are not.
    Coincidentally a Serbi on southern delta of the Volga are mentioned to the north of the Caucasus Albani.

    So you think that Ptolemy's Albani is pure coincidence too?


    Last edited by parasar; 06-03-2015 at 05:18 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes I understand, often names are coincidence, but we also know that sometimes widely separated names are not.
    Coincidentally a Serbi on southern delta of the Volga are mentioned to the north of the Caucasus Albani.

    So you think that Ptolemy's Albani is pure coincidence too?


    In my opinion, as well as most historians, I do not think it is coincidental, rather one of the evidence that Albanians=Illyrians.

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes I understand, often names are coincidence, but we also know that sometimes widely separated names are not.
    Coincidentally a Serbi on southern delta of the Volga are mentioned to the north of the Caucasus Albani.

    So you think that Ptolemy's Albani is pure coincidence too?


    Can you expand on ptolemys Albani please, I am too sleepy to look it up myself and assume you have information, so just share.

    My point is and was that the Albanians have been present in the Balkans before the the Greeks and Romans began writing about the region. I do believe I mentioned that I would not be surprised if there was a related tribe called a similar name but an entire people I have not heard of prior.
    I would not be surprised if the modern term Albanian (in a similar form but not exact) came from a tribe, branch etc of the Illyrians or related people's and the name sprung from that.

    Maybe you can say what you would like to say rather than having me trawl Wikipedia?

    Coincidences I did not say, similar names I did say. Similar does not always mean the same source, though I think many may relate to the word Alba, which I believe means white in Latin.
    Last edited by Cinnamon orange; 06-03-2015 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Expand

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon orange View Post
    Can you expand on ptolemys Albani please, I am too sleepy to look it up myself and assume you have information, so just share.
    ...
    Claudius Ptolemy 90-168AD
    Geography
    Book 3, Chapter 13. It gives the coordinates (corresponding to modern Albania) of the people Albanoi and town Albanopolis.

    The reference in Greek is here: https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_4k.../n229/mode/1up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon orange View Post
    I was refering to using the term Albanian to describe modern day Albanians. If there was a tribe called the Albani, I do not see eveidence it was the term for the people as a whole. Albanian is modern.
    Britain, I think was once called Albion, that does not connect to Albanians either....

    The reason for my post was another users assertion that because the Greeks, Romans did not mention specifically a people called Albanians in the Balkans, ergo they did not exist there in that time period. Hence the Albanians are a more modern migrant group to the Balkans.
    Since Illyrians in majority of tribes lived in modern Bosnia and we can see this by the Illyrian revolt against Rome
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_Batonianum

    Where some say 150,000 slaughtered and 250,000 enslaved and relocated, what dregs of the remnants fled north, east and south into other parts of the balkans.
    we see by the map, that only bosnia and croatia are the illyrian battlegrounds of this revolt.

    and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bato_%2...e_chieftain%29
    another map

    IMO, i followed learned albanian scholars who state the Dardani are more Albanian than any other people from ancient times..........then again , it might be propaganda as Dardania is modern Kosovo, which seems the epicentre of albanians
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
    Last edited by vettor; 06-03-2015 at 06:44 PM.


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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Since Illyrians in majority of tribes lived in modern Bosnia and we can see this by the Illyrian revolt against Rome
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_Batonianum

    Where some say 150,000 slaughtered and 250,000 enslaved and relocated, what dregs of the remnants fled north, east and south into other parts of the balkans.
    we see by the map, that only bosnia and croatia are the illyrian battlegrounds of this revolt.

    and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bato_%2...e_chieftain%29
    another map

    IMO, i followed learned albanian scholars who state the Dardani are more Albanian than any other people from ancient times..........then again , it might be propaganda as Dardania is modern Kosovo, which seems the epicentre of albanians
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
    So what is your point? We know there used to be Illyrian tribes living up north in modern day Bosnia too.

    Are you going to give us another crazy theory about Albanians migrating to present areas, such as the one that they migrated from India/Pakistan border based on a Indo-European language tree that you couldn't even interpret right?
    Last edited by Trojet; 06-03-2015 at 07:08 PM.

  10. #47
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    http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/l.../Albanian.html
    The exclusive surviving member of the "Balkan" clade is Albanian, a linguistic isolate among Indo-European languages ...

    because these and certain other ancient languages of the Balkans are generally if not provably considered to be Indo-European and somehow related to one another, and because they were geographically clustered, they are grouped for convenient reference.

    Albanian's Indo-European ancestry was first suggested in the 1850s, but was not fully established until the early 20th century: Albanian appears exotic against other Indo-European languages because it has suffered great lexical change from the reconstructed parent. The broken history of the Balkans sheds light on the near-total absence of PIE-inherited words and their replacement with loans from Greek, Latin, Slavic, and Turkish over the course of twenty-five centuries. The surviving PIE-inherited words, meanwhile, balance considerable phonological change with striking conservatism, such as the preservation of all three PIE tectal series before front vowels.
    ...
    Among all major Indo-European families, Albanian has the latest first attestation: the language is first recorded in various 15th century AD marginalia ...

    What is collectively called Albanian actually comprises two dialects, Gheg and Tosk, thought to have split from a common Albanian stock some 1500 years ago. Respecting their geography, the River Shkumbin serves as a rough latitudinal divide with Gheg to the north (widely spoken in Serbia and Montenegro, less in Albania and Macedonia) and Tosk to the south (primarily spoken in Albania, but also by diaspora populations in Greece and Turkey).

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  12. #48
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    ^ I do agree with most of the points that article makes, it should also be noted that modern Greek has suffered the same thing in comparison with ancient Greek as Albanian, especially when we are talking about a period of several millenia, languages evolve.

    Here is a great point they make about the oldest languages in the world in the following article:

    "In 3200 BC, there were many, many languages spoken besides Sumerian and Egyptian, but they weren't fortunate enough to have a writing system. These languages are just as old. To take one interesting case, the Albanian language (spoken north of Greece) was not written down until about the 15th century AD, yet Ptolemy mentions the people in the first century BC.* The linguistic and archaeological evidence suggests that Albanians were a distinct people for even longer than that. So Albanian has probably existed for several millennia, but has only been written down for 500 years. With a twist of fate, Albanian might be considered very "old" and Greek pretty "new". "
    https://linguistlist.org/ask-ling/oldest.cfm
    Last edited by Trojet; 06-03-2015 at 07:25 PM.

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    New research paper out today on the Y-chromosome variability in Calabrian and Sicilian Arbereshe. I nearly missed this in the New DNA Papers thread! If anyone else missed it, or would like to discuss this would be a good thread to highlight it.

    Stefania Sarno et al., 2015, European Journal of Human Genetics: Shared language, diverging genetic histories: high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variability in Calabrian and Sicilian Arbereshe
    Abstract:
    The relationship between genetic and linguistic diversification in human populations has been often explored to interpret some specific issues in human history. The Albanian-speaking minorities of Sicily and Southern Italy (Arbereshe) constitute an important portion of the ethnolinguistic variability of Italy. Their linguistic isolation from neighboring Italian populations and their documented migration history, make such minorities particularly effective for investigating the interplay between cultural, geographic and historical factors. Nevertheless, the extent of Arbereshe genetic relationships with the Balkan homeland and the Italian recipient populations has been only partially investigated. In the present study we address the genetic history of Arbereshe people by combining highly resolved analyses of Y-chromosome lineages and extensive computer simulations. A large set of slow- and fast-evolving molecular markers was typed in different Arbereshe communities from Sicily and Southern Italy (Calabria), as well as in both the putative Balkan source and Italian sink populations. Our results revealed that the considered Arbereshe groups, despite speaking closely related languages and sharing common cultural features, actually experienced diverging genetic histories. The estimated proportions of genetic admixture confirm the tight relationship of Calabrian Arbereshe with modern Albanian populations, in accordance with linguistic hypotheses. On the other hand, population stratification and/or an increased permeability of linguistic and geographic barriers may be hypothesized for Sicilian groups, to account for their partial similarity with Greek populations and their higher levels of local admixture. These processes ultimately resulted in the differential acquisition or preservation of specific paternal lineages by the present-day Arbereshe communities.
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...138a.html#aff1
    Arbereshe Y Chromosome pie chart.jpg

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  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tįltos View Post
    New research paper out today on the Y-chromosome variability in Calabrian and Sicilian Arbereshe. I nearly missed this in the New DNA Papers thread! If anyone else missed it, or would like to discuss this would be a good thread to highlight it.

    Stefania Sarno et al., 2015, European Journal of Human Genetics: Shared language, diverging genetic histories: high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variability in Calabrian and Sicilian Arbereshe
    Abstract: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...138a.html#aff1
    Arbereshe Y Chromosome pie chart.jpg
    Thanks!
    I would like a MTDNA study also, as I have a feeling the first Arbereshe settlers in Calabria, to an extent mixed with local females, but further migration kept the cultural distinctness and language intact. Well I am basing that on the MENA my paternal half Arberesh side has

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