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Thread: New DNA Papers - General Discussion Thread

  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    Wow, that's cringeworthy. I watched that video and his hypothesis is quite problematic from a genetic standpoint. He's proposing that there was a split between Iranian and the ancestors of Ashkenazim Jews in Northeastern Turkey. The problem with that of course, is that we know that Iranian Jews do not cluster very closely with Northeastern Turks. They're genetically closest to Iraqi Jews, Assyrians and Iraqi Mandaeans, who depending on the analysis are mapped in various historically relevant regions in Mesopotamia. Even though I may not have expertise on the linguistic front, I suspect there are problems there as well.
    Well there might be some connections between toponomies of those villages and ashkenazis but that doesnt mean that north east population of turkey are the source or ancestral populations to all ashkenazis. As far as we are talking about medevial times North east of the turkey were on the way of silk road and at those time there were many merchants there. Thus those thoponomies might occured during 8th-11th centuries (at those times there were influence of Hazar kingdom on transcaucasia and south east of Blacksea) but at those times Yiddish has already been spoken in Europe... He might prove that those toponomies come through Askenazi merchants but not the ancestral roots of Ashkenazi jews comes from there.

    In my opinion reactions against the views of Elhaik is exaggareted. I could not find anything absurd on seeking the roots of the ashkenazi jews on Hazar people. I think most of those reactions againt his points due to creating "pure race" along all jews which stand on levantine...

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  3. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I wasn't familiar with this paper and associated controversy. Here is a link to a rebuttal to its findings.http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentin.../#12250b9cdb23
    R-FGC14590SK2093/FGC14593 * FGC14592 * FGC14590+2 SNPsformed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybpinfo-Italy & Turkey.
    R-Y18687Y18688 * Y18687formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybpinfo-Ukraine
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

    L584
    http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/R1b1a2_...03_09_2016.pdf

    Nor_Artages_Armavir_Region-L943/L945
    https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Nor...a1c84b8579e1af

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  5. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    In my opinion reactions against the views of Elhaik is exaggareted. I could not find anything absurd on seeking the roots of the ashkenazi jews on Hazar people. I think most of those reactions againt his points due to creating "pure race" along all jews which stand on levantine...
    Unless you can prove that Sephardic Jews, South Italians, Maltese, Cretans and Cypriots have a good chunk of Khazar or Turkic ancestry, the whole endeavour is absurd and questionable at best. Also, nobody's saying that Jews are "pure" or that there is a Jewish race, all I've seen so far are hordes of people bent on denying that Jews are... Jews.

    EDIT: Anyway, this is OT, I'm more than willing to discuss this in another thread though.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 04-23-2016 at 05:54 PM.
    מְכֹרֹתַיִךְ וּמֹלְדֹתַיִךְ מֵאֶרֶץ הַכְּנַעֲנִי אָבִיךְ הָאֱמֹרִי וְאִמֵּךְ חִתִּית
    יחזקאל פרק טז פסוק ג-

    אֲרֵי יִצְרָא לִבָּא דַּאֲנָשָׁא בִּישׁ מִזְּעוּרֵיהּ
    בראשית פרק ח פסוק כא-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post

    EDIT: Anyway, this is OT, I'm more than willing to discuss this in another thread though.
    Me too.

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  9. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    Me too.
    Here's a thread where we can discuss this.
    מְכֹרֹתַיִךְ וּמֹלְדֹתַיִךְ מֵאֶרֶץ הַכְּנַעֲנִי אָבִיךְ הָאֱמֹרִי וְאִמֵּךְ חִתִּית
    יחזקאל פרק טז פסוק ג-

    אֲרֵי יִצְרָא לִבָּא דַּאֲנָשָׁא בִּישׁ מִזְּעוּרֵיהּ
    בראשית פרק ח פסוק כא-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  11. #1626
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    The new Poznik et al. study found a novel F* Y-DNA branch from Vietnam. Many previous F*'s from South Asia are now placed into a new H0 line.

    Ust-Ishim again confirmed K2a* (pre-NO), and Oase-1 seems to be in the same branch too.

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  13. #1627
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    You are probably aware of Dienekes's claims about haplogroup E's backmigration to Africa. This theory seems to be supported in this new paper. In that model, ydnas A and B would be African and DE and CF Eurasian. I see that in the yDNA tree of this new paper, B - CT-M168 split is 105 000 years ago which is quite well in line with the earliest Arabian finds.

    Bursts in male demography 2016.jpg
    Last edited by Kristiina; 04-27-2016 at 08:37 AM.

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  15. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    You are probably aware of Dienekes's claims about haplogroup E's backmigration to Africa. This theory seems to be supported in this new paper. In that model, ydnas A and B would be African and DE and CF Eurasian. I see that in the yDNA tree of this new paper, B - CT-M168 split is 105 000 years which is quite in line with the earliest Arabian finds.

    Bursts in male demography 2016.jpg
    1000genomes doesn't have a proper set of East/Northeast African samples or even Near Eastern samples though, it's kind of a stretch to make that kind of conclusion without looking at them (not to mention ancient DNA).

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  17. #1629
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    If they had used other than 1000 genomes I do not think that that would have brought down the age calculated for B-M181 and CT-M168 split. In this new paper D2-M55 is as old as E1b-M35 and there seems to be five E branches included: E1a-M33, E1b-M35, EIb-M2 and E2-M75. The fact remains that D is found in Japan and Tibet and the midpoint of E and D is somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula and the Persian Gulf.

    In the recent paper on macrohaplogroup N, the age of L3 in Africa is 70 800 years and the age of N11 in Southeast Asia is 76 000 years (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0129839)

    The age of D and E split in this new paper is just 72 000 years which is approximately the age calculated for L3 in Africa.

    By comparison, the age of macrohaplogroup M in Southeast Asia is 60 000 years and in Oceania 68 000 years (http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...47456.full.pdf).

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  19. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    If they had used other than 1000 genomes I do not think that that would have brought down the age calculated for B-M181 and CT-M168 split. In this new paper D2-M55 is as old as E1b-M35 and there seems to be five E branches included: E1a-M33, E1b-M35, EIb-M2 and E2-M75. The fact remains that D is found in Japan and Tibet and the midpoint of E and D is somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula and the Persian Gulf.
    Are you aware that DE(xE,D) is found in Africa?

    In the recent paper on macrohaplogroup N, the age of L3 in Africa is 70 800 years and the age of N11 in Southeast Asia is 76 000 years (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0129839)
    That's ridiculous.

    By comparison, the age of macrohaplogroup M in Southeast Asia is 60 000 years and in Oceania 68 000 years (http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...47456.full.pdf).
    The recent paper on prehistoric European mtDNA estimated both M and N to be younger than 55 ky, based on actual ancient DNA.

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