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Thread: N1c in the Balts

  1. #171
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    So, small brother lines around Pskov kind of suggests point of origin for m2783.
    Age points at expansion ca mid I Millennium BC.
    So, still in line with net Ware.

  2. #172
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    Georg Dunkel is one of the admins of this FTDNA project, he'll probably mail the most recent version of his tree if you ask him.

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  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    Georg Dunkel is one of the admins of this FTDNA project, he'll probably mail the most recent version of his tree if you ask him.
    Except in DNA results for that project I do not see a Single person tested for those new SNPs, so I am afraid his tree does not contain those new subgroups (Pskov and Estonian-Latvian).

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Except in DNA results for that project I do not see a Single person tested for those new SNPs, so I am afraid his tree does not contain those new subgroups (Pskov and Estonian-Latvian).
    Perhaps. Anyway there's an updated version of the tree (but SNP label differences may make comparison with Karmin paper unclear) and an analysis of West Balts in one of the FTDNA projects he runs.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...dna/about/news

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  7. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    Perhaps. Anyway there's an updated version of the tree (but SNP label differences may make comparison with Karmin paper unclear) and an analysis of West Balts in one of the FTDNA projects he runs.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...dna/about/news
    Thanks!
    Pskov and Estonian-Latvian not there yet.

    The "West" Balts paper I have already discussed. It is too much present in Latvian to be called West Balts:
    1) 7 of 9 Ftdna Latvian N samples are West Balts
    2) in that doc, almost every subbox besides Central Euro samples, also contains a sample from Latvia.

    So, it looks more of something born in Latvia than West Baltic.

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  10. #177
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    East Prussian N1c subclades

    Check also East Prussian R1a subclades here:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-R1a-subclades

    East Prussian N1c (sample size = 19 people):

    Clade Z16975 / FGC13372 = 7 people:

    https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-Z16975/

    kit 193848 Jons Maczullatis born in 1745 in Skaisgirren (Skajzgiry), hg. N-Z16975
    kit E13080 Johannes Reihs born in 1800 in Bischofstein (Bisztynek), hg. N-Z16975
    kit E2482 Martin Ossowski, born in 1729 in Marienburg (Malbork), hg. N-L1025, probably N-FGC13372
    kit N61024 Jurgis Lunczyns born in 1715 in Mosteiten (Slawjanskoje), hg. N-L1025, probably N-FGC13372
    kit 343953 Pranciškus Lukoševičius, born in Wisztyniec (Vištytis), hg. N-Z16975

    Y19113 subclade (one person):

    kit B42972 Johann Kuschnereit born in 1800 in Eszerischken, hg. N-Z16975; Y19113+

    Y6129 subclade (one person):

    kit N58382 Dargil, born ca. 1344 in Gut Dargels (Dargiele) near Migehnen (Mingajny), hg. N-Z16975; Y6129+

    Clade L551 = 2 people:

    https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-L551/

    kit E8045 Dawid Barteit, born in Kolonie Bismarck near Heydekrug, hg. N-L551
    kit 202401 Jan Łozowski born in 1850 in Lötzen (Giżycko), hg. N-L551

    Clade L732 = 1 person:

    https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-L732/

    kit 217892 Johann Groening born in 1800 in Horsterbusch (Krzewiny), hg. N-L732

    Undetermined L1025+ = 8 people:

    https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-L1025/

    kit 142919 Wilhelm E. Spangehl born in 1819 in Ragnit (Neman), hg. N1c-L1025
    kit E9638 August Darge born in 1870 in Bartenstein (Bartoszyce), hg. N1c-L1025
    kit 179556 Michael Bannuscher born in 1729 in Schoenfeld (near Braunsberg), hg. N-L1025
    kit N42695 Julius Baltrusch born in 1874 in Campinschken (near Tilsit), hg. N-L1025
    kit 147092 Johann Bever born in 1800 in Ryabinowoje (now Kaliningrad Oblast), hg. N-L1025
    kit 183188 Andrzej Cholewa, born in 1815 in Bełcząc (near Bialla/Gehlenburg), hg. N-L1025
    kit N23762 Andrzej Romanski, born in 1758 in Łapka (Warmia, near Olsztyn), hg. N-L1025
    kit 173926 Baltazar Hilinski, born in 1866 in Rakowo (near Tiegenhof), hg. N-L1025

    Undetermined N1c1a+ = 1 person:

    https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N1c1a/

    kit 284236 Wannagat born in 1880 in Göritten (Puszkino) or Stallupönen (Nesterow), hg. N-M178

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  12. #178
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    ^^^ Surprisingly no N-CTS8173 showed up in that East Prussian sample:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-CTS8173/



    Also no any N-Z17902 (BY158) showed up in that East Prussian sample:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Z17902/


  13. #179
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    Unless some people with "undetermined L1025+" had these subclades.

  14. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    The "West" Balts paper I have already discussed. It is too much present in Latvian to be called West Balts:
    1) 7 of 9 Ftdna Latvian N samples are West Balts
    2) in that doc, almost every subbox besides Central Euro samples, also contains a sample from Latvia.

    So, it looks more of something born in Latvia than West Baltic.
    Indeed, Z16981 looks more Latvian. But it is also widespread outside of Baltic states.

    This map shows the distribution of CTS8173 (which is a subclade of Z16981):

    http://s23.postimg.org/s45kpt4zf/CTS8173.png

    Among those 19 samples of N1c from East Prussia, there is no any confirmed Z16981.

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