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Thread: Relative finder distribution of South Asian Caste and Tribal Haplogroups

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulgill View Post
    Garbage in garbage out. You are buying into the garbage that have been put on the internet. All of what you read is not true. I wonder where your claims come from? Jatts' European component of atuosomal dna alone proves your theory of Jatts being local people untrue. And there are still traditions among Jatts that directly point out them being mainly Massagetae, and if you are a Jatt you should be aware of that. Sorry to say but your knowledge of Jatts is near to nil.
    Some Western European populations have more Baloch today than South Asian populations that have Northeast European. Even the high NE-Euro in Haryanvi Jatts isn't that much to go crazy over considering Pathan/Pashtun, Brahmin, Rajput, etc have been seen to have NE-Euro in the teens as well (not to mention distant Central Asian populations like Tajiks who are on the border with Northwestern India have even higher NE-Euro). Everyone is related ("Indo-European") and no one is arguing that Jatts did not come from Central Asia. They did, that is their highly likely origin, but we don't know much beyond that. We don't even know dates. I don't think all Jatts are from Massagetae, some of the Y-DNA haplogroups are too local and too old. Some of them doubtless came from that group though. And some from Indo-Scythian stock, some from Indo-Greek, and some from much earlier migrations. I think the Scythians were probably the source of the biggest assimilation into Jatts in the latter part of their formative period (before 2000ybp).

    It's common sense too, when people migrate or settle into an area and two populations assimilate, even if one population dominates the other, one population doesn't entirely displace the other. I think the more interesting question is about the local South Asian contributions to Jatt ancestry. Who were they and what was their lifestyle? (aside from being agriculturalists) We already have a fairly good idea about what the Central Asians were like since Central Asian lifestyle hasn't changed much throughout the millennia (the typical nomadic horse-centric warrior culture).

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Even that is suspect. You may have seen on another thread a paper posted that finds little if any evidence of the Ashkenaki Jewish connection to Khazars.
    "Our data render the latter source highly unlikely"
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/13...comms3928.html

    These same Khazars were purported to have been Gurjjara.

    There was Gurjjar Pratihar (later Rajput) rule in Kannauj, which dynasty was started by a Brahman Harichandra.
    Ghatayala Inscription: "Padihara-vanso ... vippo Hariando" http://books.google.com/books?id=IwE16UFBfdEC&pg=PA146

    Another Gurjjara dynasty is thought to be that of Udaipur Rajputs which was started by a Brahman Guhadatta.
    Atpur Inscription "From Anandpur came he of Brahman race (may he flourish!) Muhideosur Gohadit [Guhil], from whom came the famous Gohil tribe" http://www.eternalmewar.in/research/...x.aspx?q=atpur

    The supposedly third Gurjjara was the Rajput Chauhan dynasty which was established by the Brahman Samanta.
    Bijolia Inscription: calls the first Chahamana as Samanta a Vipra of the Vatsa kula.
    विप्र श्री वत्स गोत्रे भूदहिच्छ्त्रपुरे पुरा । सामन्तोअनन्त सामन्त: पूर्नतल्लो नृपस्तत: ॥ तस्माच्छ्री :जयराजविग्रहनृपौ-श्री चन्द्रगोपेन्द्रकौ । तस्मादुर्लभ गूबको शशिनृपौ-गूवाकसच्चन्दनौ ॥ Epigraphia Indica, Vol.3
    http://www.jatland.com/home/Bijolia_Bhilwara

    So faced with all these Brahman dynasties ruling north India, a theory was developed. This is the Khazar-Hephathlite Hun theory. According to this theory the Khazars were the priests of these Huns, and later became Rajputs.
    Campbell and Bhandarkar were the main proponents of this theory: http://books.google.com/books?id=gUAvuYu-otEC&pg=PA59

    In my opinion, all of the above is suspect. In one the records written (Desavali-vivriti by Pandit Jagamohan) about our caste, we are called of Gurjjar origin and were dislodged from the Yamuna to settle further down the Ganges.


    I can't speak for all Gurjjars, but as I am L657-Y9-Y2392, and as no L657 has been found anywhere in Khazar lands, then at least our Gurjjar line was not Khazar!
    Yeah that Khazar connection is a real stretch. Even the Hephthalite one is a guess, we know they were in the region, we don't know what became of them. They didn't become Jatts I'm pretty sure, at least not most of them and they didn't become Gujjar I would bet. The origin of Gujjar is mostly a mystery too like the rest of these groups.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulgill View Post
    And all those groups are outsiders.
    Their origin was outside but they are locals now. No one in the world will consider any of these groups to be anything other than South Asians now. They speak South Asian languages and have South Asian cultures. Calling the Brahmin outsiders at this point in history is a little silly.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Their origin was outside but they are locals now. No one in the world will consider any of these groups to be anything other than South Asians now. They speak South Asian languages and have South Asian cultures. Calling the Brahmin outsiders at this point in history is a little silly.
    Wait, Brahmans were originally outsiders? sorry my knowledge of south asian culture is scant since I wasn't born and bought up in the region

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrdad View Post
    Wait, Brahmans were originally outsiders? sorry my knowledge of south asian culture is scant since I wasn't born and bought up in the region
    Probably. A really long time ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic..._of_South_Asia

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrdad View Post
    ...

    I didn't know you were Y9, all this time I thought you were Y7.
    I had not tested for Y7 with FTDNA. It is now confirmed negative as per YFull. YF01382 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-b3...NJWHY3Ync/edit
    So we have a common ancestor not at the Y7 but at the Y9 level!
    While your Y7 ancestors were guarding the Khyber, mine were probably further east.

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

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  8. #97
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    parasar you took FG test ?

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    parasar you took FG test ?
    Yes that is correct.

    List of private SNP's
    Private SNP (99%): 24
    FGC7406+
    FGC7414+
    FGC7415+
    FGC7416+
    FGC7420+
    FGC7421+
    FGC7422+
    FGC7423+
    FGC7424+
    FGC7425+
    FGC7426+
    FGC7427+
    FGC7428+
    FGC7429+
    FGC7430+
    FGC7431+
    FGC7432+
    FGC7433+
    FGC7434+
    FGC7435+
    FGC7436+
    FGC7437+
    FGC7443+
    FGC7444+

    Private Indel (99%): 3
    FGC7445+
    FGC7447+
    FGC3217+

    Private SNP (95%): 15
    FGC7407+
    FGC7408+
    FGC7409+
    FGC7410+
    FGC7411+
    FGC7412+
    FGC7413+
    FGC7417+
    FGC7418+
    FGC7419+
    FGC7438+
    FGC7439+
    FGC7440+
    FGC7441+
    FGC7442+

    Private Indel (95%) 1
    FGC7446+

    Private SNP (40%): 69
    Private Indel (40%): 10
    Many at SNPs and Indels at unreliable 10% level.

    Total 'private' high quality mutation (95%+): 43

    Summary by Michał:
    Based on the preliminary analysis of the variantCompare file that kit N12617 received from FGC, it seems that he shows the following number of SNPs at each level between Z645 and his "private" level:

    3 SNPs at the Z93 level (Z93, Z95 and Z2479, all previously known),
    2 SNPs at the Z94 level (Z94, L342, both previously known),
    8 SNPs at the L657 level, including 6 mutations that have been previously reported by YFull (L657, Y2, Y3, Y13, Y26, Y27), one "new" good quality marker M605, and one marker of much lower quality (22479878, G->T) that is probably located in a region that is not easily sequenced (though I am pretty convinced that it is specifically associated with L657, at least when branch Z93 alone is considered),
    1 SNP at the Y9 level,
    1 SNP (FGC7398) shared with all known Y9(xY7) samples (HG03899, HG04098, NA20904),
    5 SNPs (FGC7399, FGC7400, FGC7401, FGC7402, FGC7404) shared with HG03899 and HG04098 only,
    1 SNP (FGC7405) shared with HG04098 only.

    Together, there are 21 mutations downstream of Z645 and upstream of his private mutations. The number of his private mutations (currently 43 high quality mutations, as reported in detail by parasar in another thread) may significantly change after his BAM file is analyzed by YFull. Also, it seems that YFull will not consider the above 22479878, G->T mutation (at the L657 level) as reliable. As far as I know from Semargl, they don't currently report any mutations found in such regions.

    Here are the chromosomal positions for all those seven non-private SNPs below Y9:
    FGC7398, 16303284 G->A
    FGC7399, 6780908 A->G
    FGC7400, 9169903 A->C
    FGC7401, 14860054 G->C
    FGC7402, 16391394 C->T
    FGC7404, 28503901 G->T
    FGC7405, 5659815 A->T
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?...=463&start=170

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  11. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Dr_McNinja, what kind of a doctor are you? Will you please identify yourself, ethnic group and area etc? You surely seem to have nothing to do with Jatts.

  12. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I had not tested for Y7 with FTDNA. It is now confirmed negative as per YFull. YF01382 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-b3...NJWHY3Ync/edit
    So we have a common ancestor not at the Y7 but at the Y9 level!
    While your Y7 ancestors were guarding the Khyber, mine were probably further east.
    I thought you are a Punjabi Brahman? Thanks for posting your FG results.
    Last edited by paulgill; 12-19-2013 at 07:02 AM.

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