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Thread: Cautious mode from Living DNA

  1. #41
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    I'm able to post attachments now so here are the maps of standard mode and cautious mode that I described in earlier posts. This format shows the shift from South Wales and North West England (and Aberdeenshire) between the two modes. Thank you for the suggestions.


    It does seem to work better for some people though. Robert drew our attention to his ancestry that shows attributions of 9% for South Wales and 2.9% for North Wales in both standard and cautious modes. He has documented ancestry from the 1600s from North Pembrokeshire and from the 1700s in North Wales. Both of these are close to the clusters on the map.

    Robert also has two 2xgreat-grandparents from Wales. We found that they had emigrated from Rhymney and that one was originally from south Cardiganshire (not far from the Pembrokeshire cluster) and that the other had parents born in the parishes around Rhymney (in east Glamorgan and south Breconshire). So the research is already a reasonable fit with the DNA test - it wouldn't be surprising if the 3xgreat-grandparents in Rhymney had ancestry from further west or north.
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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe Watts View Post
    Thank you Avalon. It is starting to look as if my ancestry is just too mixed even though it is almost all from one very small country.
    I think that this might be the case for a lot of us on this forum. Our own ancestry may be more mixed than the clusters that comprise the POBI/LivingDNA samples, hence people are getting unusual results, particularly in cautious mode. The real population structure of the UK is going to be much more complicated and mixed than POBI but would require thousands more samples.

    In the case of Wales, we can see that sampling was good in Anglesey, SW Wales and in the Welsh Borders but limited everywhere else. Really to get super accurate genetic results they would need to replicate the POBI all over Wales, including in urban areas.

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  5. #43
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    Living DNA results for my father are back earlier than expected. His known ancestry is almost all south-west Wales and the results match well in all modes.

    In standard mode he has attributions to six regions with over 80% attributed to Wales or its borders; he also gets a small amount of Aberdeenshire and Ireland as many people from Wales do.

    His cautious mode maps are shaded in the areas of known ancestry and neighbouring areas. And his cautious mode map indicates anything up to 85% from South Wales where mine is blank.

    (There are three groups in cautious mode:
    South Wales related: South Wales (52.6%); South Wales Borders (19.6%); South Central England (2.3%); and Ireland (1.4%) are brought together. The cautious group omits South Central England and includes Devon.
    North Wales related: the attribution to North Wales (8.7%) is used and the wider group shown includes South Wales.
    Orkney related: the group takes in the 5.7% attributed to Aberdeenshire and allocates it to Orkneys and South West Scotland/ Northern Ireland)
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  7. #44
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    Great news your father's results are in, Phoebe Watts! It sounds like his results are more in line with what you expected for yourself, I hope this helps you sort out your results better than before his were available.
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe Watts View Post
    Living DNA results for my father are back earlier than expected. His known ancestry is almost all south-west Wales and the results match well in all modes.

    In standard mode he has attributions to six regions with over 80% attributed to Wales or its borders; he also gets a small amount of Aberdeenshire and Ireland as many people from Wales do.

    His cautious mode maps are shaded in the areas of known ancestry and neighbouring areas. And his cautious mode map indicates anything up to 85% from South Wales where mine is blank.

    (There are three groups in cautious mode:
    South Wales related: South Wales (52.6%); South Wales Borders (19.6%); South Central England (2.3%); and Ireland (1.4%) are brought together. The cautious group omits South Central England and includes Devon.
    North Wales related: the attribution to North Wales (8.7%) is used and the wider group shown includes South Wales.
    Orkney related: the group takes in the 5.7% attributed to Aberdeenshire and allocates it to Orkneys and South West Scotland/ Northern Ireland)
    Totally bizarre that you got South Wales Border related ancestry and your father got South Wales related in cautious mode!? That's a head scratcher. Does your mother have South Wales ancestry?

    Maybe LivingDNA's cautious mode is still just a work in progress and they haven't quite got it right yet. There should be some sort of logic to it though. They have the data and they run it through their computer algorithm, the results should make some sort of sense, based on the data they have. But why your South Wales ancestry gets assigned to a different cautious group to your father I have no idea.

    On edit: Your father does have South Wales Border ancestry though, whereas if I recall correctly, you don't in complete mode, so perhaps this is part of the explanation for your South Wales Border related in cautious mode.
    Last edited by avalon; 09-08-2017 at 08:04 PM.

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Totally bizarre that you got South Wales Border related ancestry and your father got South Wales related in cautious mode!? That's a head scratcher. Does your mother have South Wales ancestry?

    Maybe LivingDNA's cautious mode is still just a work in progress and they haven't quite got it right yet. There should be some sort of logic to it though. They have the data and they run it through their computer algorithm, the results should make some sort of sense, based on the data they have. But why your South Wales ancestry gets assigned to a different cautious group to your father I have no idea.

    On edit: Your father does have South Wales Border ancestry though, whereas if I recall correctly, you don't in complete mode, so perhaps this is part of the explanation for your South Wales Border related in cautious mode.
    When I asked Living DNA about my results I was trying to suggest that something looked quite odd but they didn't really want to know. It was just about the logic of cautious mode leaving out one of the largest and most obvious parts of the standard mode. When I asked a second time they suggested that there might be some family anomaly that I wasn't aware of. It's just as well that I have a very strong family likeness to the south Wales branch!

    There is no recent south Wales ancestry on my mother's side. But my standard (and complete) mode result is now looking a little odd. If I do a simple analysis of my results against half my father's result it looks as if my father's South Wales Borders is coming up as South Central England for me. So I think you are right that the South Wales Borders attribution may be confusing things.... I hope there will be an update soon.

    At least now I have access to a set of results that look better than mine across the modes.

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  13. #47
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    As somebody from SW Wales, could I enquirer what his YDNA, and MTDNA haplogroup results are?
    Just trying to gauge how odd mine are.
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  15. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    As somebody from SW Wales, could I enquirer what his YDNA, and MTDNA haplogroup results are?
    Just trying to gauge how odd mine are.
    Yes of course:

    Y-DNA is given as R-L21 / R-DF13 (I think that's common in Wales)

    mtDNA is given as H1 / H1b

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe Watts View Post
    Yes of course:

    Y-DNA is given as R-L21 / R-DF13 (I think that's common in Wales)

    mtDNA is given as H1 / H1b
    Thank you, yes that’s quite typical for Wales.
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  19. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe Watts View Post
    When I asked Living DNA about my results I was trying to suggest that something looked quite odd but they didn't really want to know. It was just about the logic of cautious mode leaving out one of the largest and most obvious parts of the standard mode. When I asked a second time they suggested that there might be some family anomaly that I wasn't aware of. It's just as well that I have a very strong family likeness to the south Wales branch!

    There is no recent south Wales ancestry on my mother's side. But my standard (and complete) mode result is now looking a little odd. If I do a simple analysis of my results against half my father's result it looks as if my father's South Wales Borders is coming up as South Central England for me. So I think you are right that the South Wales Borders attribution may be confusing things.... I hope there will be an update soon.

    At least now I have access to a set of results that look better than mine across the modes.
    Yes, I also found when I contacted LIvingDNA they didn't really give me much of an answer, just a standard sort of response really. To be fair to them, they do have thousands of customers so I guess they just don't have the time or resources to give detailed responses.

    The discrepencies between you and your fathers results are a bit odd. If your mother's side of the family also came from South Wales then I could understand the confusion, but if not, then you should be able to match your South Wales results through to your father's. At least the LivingDNA test has given you a high overall Welsh % so accurate in a general Welsh sense.

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