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Thread: New SNPs for R-P312?

  1. #1
    Junior Member vineviz's Avatar
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    New SNPs for R-P312?

    The DNA project aimed at understanding the ancestry of the Anglesey Bonesetter as apparently attributed this ancestry to the Caucaus and a clade of R-P312 called R-S250.

    http://www.angleseybonesetters.co.uk...rts_Issued.pdf

    Jim Wilson et al. sequenced the Y and found 13 novel SNPs in this lineage that, so far, have not appeared in any of the 1,000+ samples WIlson has access to. They'd seem to be good candidates for Eastern European R-P312 lineages.

    Vince

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  3. #2
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineviz View Post
    The DNA project aimed at understanding the ancestry of the Anglesey Bonesetter as apparently attributed this ancestry to the Caucaus and a clade of R-P312 called R-S250.

    http://www.angleseybonesetters.co.uk...rts_Issued.pdf

    Jim Wilson et al. sequenced the Y and found 13 novel SNPs in this lineage that, so far, have not appeared in any of the 1,000+ samples WIlson has access to. They'd seem to be good candidates for Eastern European R-P312 lineages.

    Vince
    S225 == Z225
    S227 == Z195

    --david

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    Junior Member vineviz's Avatar
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    Thanks, David. I'm leaning towards the conclusion that the Ossetian connection is a red herring.

  5. #4
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    I've sent a message to Dr Wilson to see if there is any information he might be willing to make available about S250 and the 13 novel SNPs.

    --david

  6. #5
    Junior Member corner's Avatar
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    That's a great story. They say the following in the paper;

    The distribution of S250* Y chromosomes (which carry S250, but not S225 or S227, i.e. the
    bone setter lineage) is not well defined, but research both as part of this project and reported
    by others show it to be present in Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and
    the Ukraine in small numbers of individuals so far tested. The frequency appears to be in the
    couple of % range.
    S250 might be DF27? Those are the same origin locations for the latest DF27 results (Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and the Ukraine) in the DF27 section of the FTDNA P312 and Subclades Project; link.

    If so, it will be very interesting for those P312 DF27* to know about the 13 novel SNPs.

  7. #6
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corner View Post
    That's a great story. They say the following in the paper;



    S250 might be DF27? Those are the same origin locations for the latest DF27 results (Spain, France, England, Switzerland, Italy, Bohemia and the Ukraine) in the DF27 section of the FTDNA P312 and Subclades Project; link.

    If so, it will be very interesting for those P312 DF27* to know about the 13 novel SNPs.
    Yes, Jim Wilson confirmed that S250 and DF27 are one and the same. Currently 12 of the novel SNPs are included in the BritainsDNA.com Illumina chip test. The position information for the novel SNPs is not currently publicly available, but Jim indicated it likely would be at some point, after he has worked out some details with the Bone Setter project.

    Regards,
    david

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  9. #7
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    On the subject of new P312 SNPs, I am told that BritainsDNA has found what they term S389 in three P312 individuals from Scotland. Does anyone know anything about this and whether it is known by any other designation?

  10. #8
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    On the subject of new P312 SNPs, I am told that BritainsDNA has found what they term S389 in three P312 individuals from Scotland. Does anyone know anything about this and whether it is known by any other designation?
    I asked Jim Wilson; his response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wilson
    S389 is L624 which is upstream of what used to be called Western I1b,
    now an I2a subgroup.

    Yes we have seen it in S116* - so that would be the finding rather than
    the SNP itself. DF19 and S250 didn't manufacture on our chip but the
    samples are:

    S225-S227-S229-S68-SRY2627-S28-S145-S182-

    They all have fatherline ancestry from Scotland.

    We have also seen the marker plenty times where it should be
    (phylogenetically) so I think it is working.

    However in looking into this in more detail it does appear to either be
    a rather unstable marker or perhaps not be genotyping very well as it is
    also present in a different branch of I and it appears in an M222 sample
    and an S21.

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  12. #9
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    I mentioned this on another forum, but thought I would add it here as some may not have seen it.

    I was recently notified by Greg M. that he has identified a second L238 individual in the GBR samples at the 1000 Genomes Project. Comparing the two, he found they shared eight additional SNPs in addition to L238, all of them new. Since they haven't been found in any other sample there, it is not possible to say at present whether they are above, below or equivalent to L238. Another researcher has found yet another new SNP in the two L238 samples there, for a total of nine, and is looking at yet another. He is now attempting to identify the appropriate primers.

    I have argued for some time that it is highly likely that there is at least one, and probably several SNPs between P312 and L238, so I am hopeful that one or more of these will end up in that position.

    The number of P312* who retain that designation after testing for L21, U152, DF27, DF19 and L238 is extremely small. I believe the total stands at less than ten people. I doubt very much they will all ultimately end up in the same as yet unidentified subclade, so there is probably more than one yet to be found.

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  14. #10
    Junior Member wlharris1055@yahoo.com's Avatar
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    I am P312 and L238 and hopefully we'll all have some answers soon.

    R1b1a2a1a1b4 L238/S182 Brythonic/Celtic Ancestry
    L21+ DF21+ DF13+ Z246- P66- P314.2- M37- M222- L96- L720- L642- L641- L226- L193- L159.2- L144-

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