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Thread: fun map of where Irish names are

  1. #11
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    Wot no "Lane" ? That is my Irish line.
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgdavies@hotmail.com View Post
    Wot no "Lane" ? That is my Irish line.
    Where were they from in Ireland?
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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Where were they from in Ireland?
    boherbue, county cork
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgdavies@hotmail.com View Post
    boherbue, county cork
    Perhaps they were originally Ó Laighin from Co. Kerry? Or perhaps Ó Luain or Ó Liatháin.
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  7. #15
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    I wouldn't call that map a scientific list of surnames. In comparison here is the Griffith Survey data for the surname 'Lane' note the high number of households in Cork

    https://www.johngrenham.com/findasur...p?surname=Lane

    There was over 300 households in Cork (county and city) bearing the name in mid 19th century
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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I notice that coastal Leinster (especially the area from Dublin to Kilkenny) on the map seems to have a near absence of the "Mc" and "Mac" surnames that characterize Ulster, Connacht, and the western coast, and very few of the "O'" surnames of Cork/Kerry. On the other hand, a lot of Norman and English sounding names there (as well as in Connacht but you see a lot of the Mc/Mac surnames in Connacht and not in Leinster).
    Here's breakdown, covering the coast from Dublin to Wexford, plus some of the Kilkenny names
    • Regan -- Gaelic Irish
    • Cullen -- Gaelic Irish
    • Byrne -- Gaelic Irish
    • Doyle -- Gaelic Irish (claims of been viking is over-literal translation!)
    • Redmond -- English/Norman
    • Walsh -- Cambro-Norman (more specifically it literally means 'someone from Wales')
    • Bolger -- Gaelic Irish
    • Stafford -- English/English
    • Doran -- Gaelic Irish
    • Hartley -- Gaelic Irish
    • Kavanagh -- Gaelic Irish (the name is actually mainline of the medieval Kings of Leinster!)
    • Larkin -- Gaelic Irish
    • Malone -- Gaelic Irish
    • Devereux -- Norman
    • Keating -- Norman
    • Rossiter -- English/Norman
    • Carroll -- Gaelic Irish
    • Phelan -- Gaelic Irish
    • Dunphy -- Gaelic Irish
    • Breen -- Gaelic Irish
    • Ryan -- Gaelic Irish
    • Sinnott -- English/Norman
    • Shortall -- English/Norman
    • Barron -- Cambro-Norman (branch of the Fitzgearlds)
    • Comerford -- English/norman
    • Brennan -- Gaelic-Irish
    • Gilpatrick/Fitzpatrick -- Gaelic Irish, the name of ruling lineage of kingdom of Osraighe before Norman invasion, Kilkenny was carved out of Osraighe, (Ossory is name of catholic diocese)


    The language shift in Leinster first is really a byproduct of the wars of the 17th century with continual shift throughout the 18th century. I believe by mid 18th century most of core of Leinster had undergone shift to English, this is evident in some of accounts from the 'Irish College' in Paris where there are complaints about priest training taking place in Irish when it comes to training of priests for Leinster etc.

    If you look at accounts form the 16th century in comparison you will see that Irish was spoken throughout Leinster apart from in very south of Wexford where Yola (a middle English variant) was spoken and likewise in parts of North Dublin ye had another 'Middle English' variant known as Fingalian. Both became extinct in late 18th/ealry 19th century due to normalisation on standard English (or more specifically Hiberno-English). Plenty of accounts of people speaking Irish within the 'Pale' if anything many of the 'Old English' (eg. descendants of original Norman colony, who didn't become Protestant) spoke Irish due to language shift. In case of Dublin, it's probable Irish survived as community language in Dublin mountains until the mid 19th century in a number of locations.
    Last edited by Dubhthach; 09-13-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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  11. #17
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    What I would also caution about is the likes of the following maps. This is based purely on land-holding (eg. Lordship) and isn't actually reflective of underlying population structure, the fact that most of these lordships underwent language shift to Irish points to contuinity in underlying population structure (eg. the lords might have been 'Norman', but actual people working the farms



    There's also terminology issues, for example in case of Antrim the Mac Domhnaill of the Isles would have regarded themselves as Gael's (though of recent scottish origin), likewise the Gallowglass families though obviously of Hebridean origin (thence their name) were heavily intermarried. In both cases the map above is really representing the origin of the lordship holders (eg. McSweeney of Fanad etc.)
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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Perhaps they were originally Ó Laighin from Co. Kerry? Or perhaps Ó Luain or Ó Liatháin.
    Maybe, I have no idea actually, I’m trying to research that part of my family but currently hitting a brick wall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    I wouldn't call that map a scientific list of surnames. In comparison here is the Griffith Survey data for the surname 'Lane' note the high number of households in Cork

    https://www.johngrenham.com/findasur...p?surname=Lane

    There was over 300 households in Cork (county and city) bearing the name in mid 19th century
    Thanks for that, at least the name Lane, seems to correlate with county Cork quite well.
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  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgdavies@hotmail.com View Post
    Maybe, I have no idea actually, I’m trying to research that part of my family but currently hitting a brick wall.

    I know the feeling, I have a number of brickwalls in Ireland, Scotland and some parts of England. Maybe I'm bad at this , though I've had great success with genealogy in the Netherlands that's for sure.

    Thanks a whole bunch Dubhthach for those links and maps along with the overview of those Irish family names. Do you know of any other reliable sources for Irish surnames and their origins?
    Y-DNA: I-Z140 (Y7198^?) (Scotland)
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