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Thread: The Neolithic Transition in the Baltic Was Not Driven by Admixture with Early Europea

  1. #11
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    R1b in Mesolithic Latvia. Reminds me of this hypothesis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ba...9;s_Epic_Tales

    R1a in Mesolithic Karelia. Reminds me of this hypothesis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ar...e_in_the_Vedas
    Last edited by Tomenable; 02-02-2017 at 07:03 PM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    No doubt.
    I would also go a bit further and say that we may not need to bring European R1b-M269 from the steppe in a post Neolithic time-frame.
    Now that would ruffle some feathers. But I agree the data, as it stands, does raise this as a possibility.

    The material from this paper indicates that the R1b1b1 subclade assignment was a prediction based on low coverage SNPs.

    We will require more data to confirm or deny whether these Latvian R1b lines are in any way ancestral to the bulk of Western European R1b.

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    The main question here is again - how CHG Caucasus hunter-gatherers arrived in Latvia and Ukraine because that's the main difference between the Latvian Hunter-gatherers and the Latvian Neolithic samples, just observe in the Supplemental Information - Figure S4. ADMIXTURE k=13 to k=20 how CHG conquered or was brought to Latvia. Of course CHG was originally associated with Y-DNA Caucasian and Northern Iranian Y-DNA J HG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    The main question here is again - how CHG Caucasus hunter-gatherers arrived in Latvia and Ukraine because that's the main difference between the Latvian Hunter-gatherers and the Latvian Neolithic samples, just observe in the Supplemental Information - Figure S4. ADMIXTURE k=13 to k=20 how CHG conquered or was brought to Latvia. Of course CHG was originally associated with Y-DNA Caucasian and Northern Iranian Y-DNA J HG.
    Just the late neolithic sample is CHG-influenced, and could've come from the steppe easily. The Middle Neolithic sample is basically EHG.

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    from the paper amazing
    It is striking that we did not find evidence for early European or Anatolian farmer admixture in any of our Latvian Neolithic samples using both D statistics (Table 2) and ADMIXTURE (Figure 2A). This lack of admixture is also supported by the mitochondrial haplogroup of the Latvian Neolithic samples (all belong to U; Figure 1), which is prevalent in European hunter-gatherers [1, 35], including our Latvian Mesolithic samples, but not in early farmers. It is interesting that among the grave goods found in the burial of Latvia_LN1 was a chisel made from the bone of a domesticated goat or sheep [17, 21]. The presence of this tool made from a domesticate as well as dietary isotope data (δ15N and δ13C), which show greater reliance on terrestrial resources than in previous periods [17], is consistent with either the adoption of farming without early European farmer-related genetic admixture or the existence of trade networks with farming communities that were largely independent of genomic exchange. Although we find no genetic input from Anatolian or early European farmers in our time series, ADMIXTURE analysis of an Estonian Corded Ware sample [26] (Figure 2 has suggested that this farmer genetic influence, which is present in contemporary Northern European populations (Figure S2), had arrived in the Baltic by at least the Bronze Age.

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    wow no wander in ancient dna in ftdna latvians win them all in the hunter %
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    The LN Latvian apparently is from Corded Ware culture, so its lack of Anatolian Farmer makes it an outlier compared to usual CW.

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  13. #17
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    Swedish Hunter-Gatherers also had some actual EHG admixture from Russia:

    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...alCode=sarc20&

    "The First Eastern Migrations of People and Knowledge into Scandinavia:
    Evidence from Studies of Mesolithic Technology, 9th-8th Millennium BC


    Abstract:

    In this paper a team of Scandinavian researchers identifies and describes a Mesolithic technological concept, referred to as ‘the conical core pressure blade’ concept, and investigates how this concept spread into Fennoscandia and across Scandinavia. Using lithic technological, contextual archaeological and radiocarbon analyses, it is demonstrated that this blade concept arrived with ‘post-Swiderian’ hunter-gatherer groups from the Russian plain into northern Fennoscandia and the eastern Baltic during the 9th millennium BC. From there it was spread by migrating people and/or as transmitted knowledge through culture contacts into interior central Sweden, Norway and down along the Norwegian coast. However it was also spread into southern Scandinavia, where it was formerly identified as the Maglemosian technogroup 3 (or the ‘Sværdborg phase’). In this paper it is argued that the identification and spread of the conical core pressure blade concept represents the first migration of people, technology and ideas into Scandinavia from the south-eastern Baltic region and the Russian plain."

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    We have to keep in mind that not only the Sok River sample is R1b1 but it is also in line towards R1b1a1a1. We don't know that that is the case for the Latvian samples ("the maximum-likelihood sub-haplogroup is R1b1b").
    Good point to pick up, but it doesn't make any difference to the origins of the Narva and Ertebolle cultures. The split between R1b1a and R1a1b appears old enough to fit the wandering north of some pointed-bottom pottery-makers.

    Mind you, I would be cautious in assigning the Latvian samples to R1b1b just yet. So far R1b-PH155 has not been found in Latvia, as far as I know. In fact it seems to be an Asian split-off, found in Tajikistan and Bhutan: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ight=R1b-PH155

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    I don't think so, they had this to say about the samples
    You are right. I was quick as the ADMIXTURE in Supp Info run only shows later samples with some ANE, but they do the same with SHG.
    Last edited by epoch; 02-02-2017 at 07:45 PM.

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