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Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Most of our relatives (pre-conversion) who converted go by the moniker Pathan.

    In Yang's book that you had quoted from - a Fateh Sahi is mentioned. His family had a branch in Saran (Brahmans of Hathwa, Kuari, Huseypur) and another in modern UP. The UP side of the family has at least three branches - one Brahman (Tamkuhi), one Rajput (Majhauli) and one Pathan (Salimpur).

    The British found it difficult to capture Fateh Sahi mainly because of his relations on the UP side where they could not pursue him as it was in Awadh (The British United Provinces of Agra and Oudh had not then been formed).

    "Fateh Bahadur Sahi was an independent ruler of this region whose territory spread across the Bihar-UP border. He belonged to the erstwhile Huseypur estate of the old Saran district of Bihar, from which descended the later-day Tamkuhi Raj of the Kushinagar district of Uttar Pradesh and the Hathwa Raj of Gapalganj district in Bihar. Of his forefathers, Mayyur Bhat is believed to have come from western India to study Sanskrit and astrology at Varanasi, well before the Christian era. Impressed by his talent, the king of Srawasty married his daughter to him. Initially, Mayyur settled in Azamgargh before moving to Gorakhpur from where he established himself in Saran in Bihar."
    http://www.thehindu.com/features/mag...cle2037700.ece
    Interesting that you mention Majhauli as another branch of my family are associated with it, here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awayan

    I wonder if there is any connection?

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Interesting that you mention Majhauli as another branch of my family are associated with it, here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awayan

    I wonder if there is any connection?
    There may be some truth to the account as the mal suffix is seen - "Raja Bhimal of Majhauli estate (District Deoria UP)"

    See also:
    GN Dutt - "The patronymic of the earlier Rajas was " Sen," which in the 16th descent was changed to " Simha" and in the 83rd to "Mall," and in the 87th to " Sahi."
    https://archive.org/stream/historyof...0dutt_djvu.txt

    "Jay Mal" - Tarikh-i-Subah Bihar
    "Kalyan Mal" - Abul Fazl
    http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bi...hapter%201.pdf
    http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bi...hapter%209.pdf

    Some think that the mal suffix dates to the Malloi of the Greek period or Mall Khatiyas of the Buddhist period.

    It is also possible it came in with the Karnat invasion of the area under the Chalukyas (see eg. Tribhuvanamalla, Rajamalla, Jagadhekamalla, etc.).
    The Saran area, Bengal, and Nepal were under the Karnatas.
    One their main citadels was at Simraongarh. http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/co...S_13_03_03.pdf
    http://nepalitimes.com/article/natio...-bhaktapur,597

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    There may be some truth to the account as the mal suffix is seen - "Raja Bhimal of Majhauli estate (District Deoria UP)"

    See also:
    GN Dutt - "The patronymic of the earlier Rajas was " Sen," which in the 16th descent was changed to " Simha" and in the 83rd to "Mall," and in the 87th to " Sahi."
    https://archive.org/stream/historyof...0dutt_djvu.txt

    "Jay Mal" - Tarikh-i-Subah Bihar
    "Kalyan Mal" - Abul Fazl
    http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bi...hapter%201.pdf
    http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bi...hapter%209.pdf

    Some think that the mal suffix dates to the Malloi of the Greek period or Mall Khatiyas of the Buddhist period.

    It is also possible it came in with the Karnat invasion of the area under the Chalukyas (see eg. Tribhuvanamalla, Rajamalla, Jagadhekamalla, etc.).
    The Saran area, Bengal, and Nepal were under the Karnatas.
    One their main citadels was at Simraongarh. http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/co...S_13_03_03.pdf
    http://nepalitimes.com/article/natio...-bhaktapur,597
    The Rajas of Majhaulis appear to have started out serving the Shunga dynasty?, I own a coin which was minted under Pushyamitra.

    This branch of my family is my great great grandfather on my mum's side, I find it difficult to believe that they were really descended from Ayub Ansari.I wonder how they converted as they were from UP rather than Bihar.

    My direct maternal ancestor was a Syeda and supposedly the daughter of a Syed, unfortunately her only male sibling had one son and two daughters so any chance of testing for Y Chromosome DNA was lost in 1990 when his son passed away without any issue.

  6. #64
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    I found this article on the Chero tribe who are said to have bee dislodged by my ancestors in the 14th Century AD:

    http://www.indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/Chero,_Cheru

    Could there be a grain of truth to my family legends in terms of migration from Delhi to Bihar?.

  7. #65
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    I ran my results through the updated MDLP K16 and got this:

    # Population Percent
    1 Indian 59.79
    2 SouthEastAsian 11.77
    3 Caucasian 11.07
    4 Steppe 7.94
    5 Australian 2.22
    6 Oceanic 1.74
    7 Neolithic 1.65
    8 Siberian 1.2
    9 Arctic 1.05
    10 EastAfrican 0.66
    11 Subsaharian 0.4
    12 Amerindian 0.3
    13 NorthAfrican 0.22

    It boosts my Caucasian a tiny bit while reduces my steppe a little bit.

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  9. #66
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    For your comparison:

    Reza

    1 Indian 55.23
    2 SouthEastAsian 18.63
    3 Caucasian 8.71
    4 Siberian 4.66
    5 Steppe 3.87
    6 Australian 2.47
    7 NorthEastEuropean 2.13
    8 Arctic 1.76
    9 Oceanic 0.98
    10 EastAfrican 0.82
    11 Neolithic 0.74

    Mother

    1 Indian 54.79
    2 SouthEastAsian 16.68
    3 Caucasian 11.28
    4 Steppe 4.54
    5 Siberian 3.49
    6 Australian 3
    7 Arctic 2.16
    8 Oceanic 1.51
    9 Neolithic 1.04
    10 EastAfrican 0.91
    11 NorthEastEuropean 0.34
    12 NearEast 0.26

    Father

    1 Indian 59.02
    2 SouthEastAsian 16.9
    3 Caucasian 6.94
    4 Siberian 3.58
    5 Steppe 3.38
    6 Australian 2.84
    7 Neolithic 1.69
    8 Arctic 1.46
    9 Oceanic 1.13
    10 NorthAfrican 1.01
    11 Amerindian 0.97
    12 NorthEastEuropean 0.54
    13 EastAfrican 0.54

    Wife

    1 Indian 58.14
    2 SouthEastAsian 18.01
    3 Caucasian 8.57
    4 Siberian 4.4
    5 Steppe 2.9
    6 NorthEastEuropean 2.53
    7 Australian 2.27
    8 Oceanic 1.56
    9 Neolithic 0.7
    10 Amerindian 0.54
    11 NorthAfrican 0.27
    12 EastAfrican 0.11

    Tanzil

    1 Indian 55.8
    2 SouthEastAsian 19.73
    3 Caucasian 11.4
    4 Siberian 3.84
    5 Steppe 2.5
    6 Oceanic 1.95
    7 NorthEastEuropean 1.67
    8 Australian 1.64
    9 NorthAfrican 0.81
    10 Amerindian 0.38
    11 EastAfrican 0.25
    12 Neolithic 0.02

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  11. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    For your comparison:

    Reza

    1 Indian 55.23
    2 SouthEastAsian 18.63
    3 Caucasian 8.71
    4 Siberian 4.66
    5 Steppe 3.87
    6 Australian 2.47
    7 NorthEastEuropean 2.13
    8 Arctic 1.76
    9 Oceanic 0.98
    10 EastAfrican 0.82
    11 Neolithic 0.74

    Mother

    1 Indian 54.79
    2 SouthEastAsian 16.68
    3 Caucasian 11.28
    4 Steppe 4.54
    5 Siberian 3.49
    6 Australian 3
    7 Arctic 2.16
    8 Oceanic 1.51
    9 Neolithic 1.04
    10 EastAfrican 0.91
    11 NorthEastEuropean 0.34
    12 NearEast 0.26

    Father

    1 Indian 59.02
    2 SouthEastAsian 16.9
    3 Caucasian 6.94
    4 Siberian 3.58
    5 Steppe 3.38
    6 Australian 2.84
    7 Neolithic 1.69
    8 Arctic 1.46
    9 Oceanic 1.13
    10 NorthAfrican 1.01
    11 Amerindian 0.97
    12 NorthEastEuropean 0.54
    13 EastAfrican 0.54

    Wife

    1 Indian 58.14
    2 SouthEastAsian 18.01
    3 Caucasian 8.57
    4 Siberian 4.4
    5 Steppe 2.9
    6 NorthEastEuropean 2.53
    7 Australian 2.27
    8 Oceanic 1.56
    9 Neolithic 0.7
    10 Amerindian 0.54
    11 NorthAfrican 0.27
    12 EastAfrican 0.11

    Tanzil

    1 Indian 55.8
    2 SouthEastAsian 19.73
    3 Caucasian 11.4
    4 Siberian 3.84
    5 Steppe 2.5
    6 Oceanic 1.95
    7 NorthEastEuropean 1.67
    8 Australian 1.64
    9 NorthAfrican 0.81
    10 Amerindian 0.38
    11 EastAfrican 0.25
    12 Neolithic 0.02
    Interesting so Bangladeshis have much more South East Asian admixture than I do. I have a lot more steppe admixture as well.

    I guess that West Bengali and Bihar cluster more closely when it comes to autosomal results?

    The new MDLP K16 admixture also gives a description for the new results:

    Amerindian - a component, which is modal (i.e has a peak) in various native American groups of North and South America, as well as in ancient DNA of Native Americans (Clovis, Kennewick man, etc).

    Ancestor - an archaic component, detected in modern African Pygmy populations (such as Mbuties and Biaka) and Khoisan hunter-gatherers.

    Steppe - a component which was sourced from ancient genome of European Bronze Age pastoralists: it roughly approximates levels of ancient North Eurasian hunter-gatherers' heritage, which was subsequently shown to have an influence in later eastern hunter-gatherers and to have spread into Europe via an incursion of Steppe herders beginning ˆ4,500 years ago.

    Indian - a component of ancestry harboured by populations of Indian subcontinent

    Arctic - a component displayed in genomes of Eskimo Inuits from Greenland and shared with Siberian Chukchis/Koryaks.

    Australian - a component of aboriginal ancestry assigned to Australian aborigens.

    Caucasian - a major component of ancestry of modern inhabitants of Caucasus, Iran and northern Indian : it was derived from genomes of mesolithic Caucasian Hunter-gatherers: a major ancestral component linked to CHG was carried west and east by migrating herders from the Eurasian Steppe.

    EastAfrican - a very dilluted component being inherited specififically from ancient inhabitants of Ethiopia and African Horn

    NorthEastEuropean - a fancy moniker for a dominant type of ancestry in North-Eastern Europe based on older type of ancestry (WHG, west European Hunter-Gatherer), today this type of ancestry peaks in the Baltic region and Scandinavia

    NearEast - a component harboured and later carried by ancient populations of Near East, in our time it reaches the maximum among Bedoins and Saudi Arabians; the component seems to carry an excess of Eurasian Basal component relative to Neolithic component.

    Neolithic - a component, modeled on genomes of first neolithic farmers of Anatolia (West Asia), these farmers from West Asia migrated to Europe during the Neolithic and carried this component with them.

    NorthAfrican - a local component of ancestry found in North Africans: this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara (Subsaharian component, see below).

    Oceanic - a component of aboriginal ancestry assigned to aborigens of Melanesia and Papua-New-Guinea.

    Siberian - a component, which is rougly ascribed to Central Siberian (found at highest frequency in Nganasan)

    SouthEastAsian - a dominant component of South East Asians: being highest among the Dai, Cambodians, Lahu and Malay, this is the most common East Asian component among South Asians.

    Subsaharian - a main component of ancestry seen in Yoruba, Mandenka and Luhya populations.

  12. #68
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    Just want to point out that Biharis themselves won't really cluster in the same area since Bihar is made up of three main ethnic groups:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhojpuri_people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maithils
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magahi_people

    Since you're Bhojpuri, you'll likely cluster closer to groups in the west like Awadhis and fellow Bhojpuris in Eastern UP.

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  14. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toor View Post
    Just want to point out that Biharis themselves won't really cluster in the same area since Bihar is made up of three main ethnic groups:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhojpuri_people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maithils
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magahi_people

    Since you're Bhojpuri, you'll likely cluster closer to groups in the west like Awadhis and fellow Bhojpuris in Eastern UP.
    That's true, my maternal grandparents can understand Bhojpuri too, the Bhojpur region straddles the ancient kingdom of Malla though?:

    Ancient_india.png
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 04-05-2017 at 07:39 AM.

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