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Thread: Familial migration of the Neolithic contrasts massive male migration during Bronze Ag

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    Familial migration of the Neolithic contrasts massive male migration during Bronze Ag

    A new paper

    Familial migration of the Neolithic contrasts massive male migration during Bronze Age in Europe inferred from ancient X chromosomes

    http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early...0.article-info
    Last edited by Helgenes50; 10-01-2016 at 01:39 AM.
    My results from David Wesolowski's Ancestry Detective Service:

    West British (Britonic?) 42.3%
    Continental Northern and Eastern European 36.6%
    Central French 21.1%

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    "Neolithic transition was driven by mass migration of both males and females in roughly equal numbers, perhaps whole families, whereas the later Bronze Age migration and cultural shift were instead driven by male migration, potentially connected to new technology and conquest."

    Interesting sex ratios, looks like steppe women were not as mobile as their men were.

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    I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but when you look at the spread of European Americans across the North American Continent during the 18th and 19th Centuries you see a similar situation where the men going West far outnumbered the women. Even today in Alaska "the last frontier" you see this discrepancy. As a single male in Alaska in my 20s I experienced it first hand. The men had a saying up there. "You don't loose you girlfriend...you lose your turn".

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ER-BRIDES.html
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 10-01-2016 at 03:03 PM.
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    This is very easy to explain, if you know how early Indo-European societies worked. Indo-Europeans commonly practiced polygyny, which means that one man could have many wifes. The most powerful and influential men had the largest number of wives.

    For example, chieftains could have 10 wifes each (or at least several).

    However, the proportion of males to females in every population is always close to 50:50. So if only 1 man married 10 women, it means that 9 other men had to remain "singles". There were just not enough women in the population for them to marry.

    And in my opinion, that was one of driving forces of Indo-European expansions.

    Those low-status men, who could not find native Steppe wifes on the Steppe, had to:

    1) Either kidnap wifes from somewhere else, and then bring them back to the Steppe;

    OR:

    2) Emigrate from the Steppe, invade another tribe, and capture their women as wifes.


    In fact, genetic and archaeological data provides evidence, that both happened. The increase of CHG admixture among Steppe people, was due to kidnapping wifes from the Caucasus region, and then bringing them back to the Steppe. Later on, they stopped kidnapping & bringing wifes to the Steppe, and instead started emigrating from the Steppe in search of wifes to conquer. That was most likely due to improvements in technology (they acquired metals, horses, wheels and wagons - becoming more mobile). Before acquiring those technological advantages, they were only able to organize raids for women (quickly surprise-attacking a settlement of farmers, kidnapping women and food, then quickly running away back to the Steppe).

    But after gaining an advantage in military power, they could conquer sedentary populations.

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    Kidnapping Caucasian women seems logistically problematic.

    I think more likely the Z2103 tribe did unto the other steppe tribes what the R1a guys did unto EEF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Kidnapping Caucasian women seems logistically problematic.

    I think more likely the Z2103 tribe did unto the other steppe tribes what the R1a guys did unto EEF.
    Ahm, You may be overcomplicating. One of my ancestors, while riding, simply grabbed a woman. Actually, they had a normal church wedding. I am one of direct mtdna descendants of that woman. I absolutely love this line. My mom is a good lawyer and she is wonderful at home. And miss my grandma.

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    I think some further clarification of their methodology is required

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    A new paper

    Familial migration of the Neolithic contrasts massive male migration during Bronze Age in Europe inferred from ancient X chromosomes

    http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early...0.article-info
    Looks like all the women stayed behind in the crimea and the north Caucasus ...............to become what the Greeks historians note as the ...........Amazons ( or , the land of Women )

    Father's Mothers Ydna ......R-S22778 ........Merlengo Veneto
    Father's Mtdna .....T2b35.......1735 Porcellengo Veneto Italy
    Wife's Ydna ..........R-DF99
    Sons Mtdna .....K1a4 ...........1710 Carnic Alps

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, A339+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post

    However, the proportion of males to females in every population is always close to 50:50. So if only 1 man married 10 women, it means that 9 other men had to remain "singles". There were just not enough women in the population for them to marry.
    The vikings were in the same case, a lack of wives due to a polygyny.
    Some people think that it was the cause of their expansion.
    My results from David Wesolowski's Ancestry Detective Service:

    West British (Britonic?) 42.3%
    Continental Northern and Eastern European 36.6%
    Central French 21.1%

  17. #10
    No one should be getting the idea Steppe people migrated with only or a vast majority of men. One method of this paper suggests essentially only Steppe men came which is absolutely impossible. Just look at LNBA European mtDNA. I gathered their frequency of Steppe-related mtDNA last year, they have about half as much as Yamnaya.

    I can't imagine lone Steppe men forcing themselves upon MN villages alone and making the genetic impact they did. Men alone can't change language btw. Think about it, who is contact with babies learning language the most, women or men? Steppe people(madeup of men and women) made settlements in Europe, their men didn't immigrate into native populations and then make themselves the rulers that's crazy. Steppe communities, with all ages and genders, must have migrated there's no other possibility imo.

    Quote from paper,
    We find evidence of ongoing, primarily male, migration from the steppe to central Europe over a period of multiple generations
    Or more likely there were continuing waves of MN women marrying Steppe men and moving into their husband's villages.
    Last edited by Sammy Andrews; 10-02-2016 at 06:56 AM.

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