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Thread: Indians with pashtun ancestry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK19191 View Post
    Indian culture was ver much present in south and east Afghanistan but that does not mean there were not other influences and other factors involved. There are Roman temples in levant region and there are Iranian influence bldg and mosques in South Asia that does not make them Romans or Iranians


    Indian culture was a highculture at that time. Sanskrit had deep influence In the region. Indian philosophy and sciences were wide spread in the region it rven if you read al biruni's writing, Kabul and Afghanistan were not India


    I am on my cell. I can answer you better tomorrow with sources.
    Another proof right from the capital of current day Afghanistan :

    Mes Aynak (Pashto: مس عينک‎, meaning "little source of copper") is a site 40 km (25 mi) southeast of Kabul, Afghanistan, located in a barren region of Logar Province. The site contains Afghanistan's largest copper deposit, as well as the remains of an ancient settlement with over 400 Buddha statues, stupas and a 40 ha (100 acres) monastery complex. It is also considered a major transit route for insurgents coming from Pakistan. Archaeologists are only beginning to find remnants of an older 5,000-year-old Bronze Age site beneath the Buddhist level, including an ancient copper smelter

    400 Statues of Buddha is not a joke....it clearly supports my point that the ancient people of this region were not Afghans or muslims but Buddhist of south Asian decent.

    I am posting these pics as proof my my statement :

    Buddhist Stopas excavated from Near Kabul





    Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mes_Aynak

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    The Mountainous region of Afghanistan is called " Hindukush" which literally means Hindu killer. Kush means to exterminate. The historic evidence is too solid and points out very clearly that the current day Afghanistan was once inhabited by indigenous Buddhists/hindus who had to flee to the east of the mountains to current day Pakistan and then further east to India with the advancement of the muslim conquest. This is history and we cannot deny it.
    This etymlogy is very disputed and likely false. Also when arabs conquered Afghanistan there were not many mass slaughters. The first muslims in these region where not really interested in converting the region and spared most Hindus and buddhists. Mass destructions of Hindu and Buddhist temples happened later after local and turkic muslim dynasties got in power but most Hindus and Buddhists in these region stayed and became muslims. Some escaped to india and tibet but there was definetly not a population replacement in eastern Afghanistan because of Islamization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    This etymlogy is very disputed and likely false. Also when arabs conquered Afghanistan there were not many mass slaughters. The first muslims in these region where not really interested in converting the region and spared most Hindus and buddhists. Mass destructions of Hindu and Buddhist temples happened later after local and turkic muslim dynasties got in power but most Hindus and Buddhists in these region stayed and became muslims. Some escaped to india and tibet but there was definetly not a population replacement in eastern Afghanistan because of Islamization.
    Ok lets agree that the etymology is disputed but the ancient remains are a fact right? the excavations of ancients sites do reveal an non afghan past of current day Afghanistan. Do u agree sir?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    It would be rather far fetched and unrealistic If you think that the Afghans of today are descendants of Kushans. The rule of the thumb is that empires are not build by tribal people. The current day afghans are nomadic tribal people and their ancestors probably were new migrant to this area. The original inhabitants of Afghanistan were Buddhists or Hindus. Afghanistan was once part of greater Punjab during the time of Raja Ranjeet Singh and also during Alexander Era i.e Raja Porus!
    Not all Afghans were tribal or nomadic, Tajiks were historically sedentary and detribalized. Sher Shah Suri, a "tribal" Pashtun had a very sophisticated administrative system which was adopted by the Mughals.

    Localities like Bamiyan were mixed and had both East Iranic and Indo-Aryan influences. Even areas such as Badakhshan and Takhar were influenced by Indo-Aryans and still host Pashai populations. Kushans were a syncretic empire and obviously very influenced by Indian culture. But they initially adopted the Bactrian language and their original capital was in Parwan.

    Bamiyan was considered part of Takharistan and many of the Bactrian documents unearthed by historians deal with Bamiyan which suggests that the Bactrian language had a vital presence there as well:

    In recent decades, the discovery of a series of legal and administrative documents from a previously understudied part of northern Afghanistan in a region known historically as Tụkhāristān has provided fertile ground for translations, editions and philological debates. The corpus consists of 195 documents and fragments drafted between the fourth and eighth centuries AD in various cities of Tụkhāristān,notably Rōb,which lies between Balkh and Bāmiyān.4 Thanks to the efforts of Nicholas Sims-Williams and Geoffrey Khan, we now have English translations of what are commonly referred to as “the Bactrian documents”. One set is written in the Bactrian language – an Iranian language using a cursive Greek script5 – and another in Arabic. These texts provide fresh data that can be brought into the historical discourse on the development of Central Asian zones from late antiquity to the rise and consolidation of Islam. Some historians have already started to do so. Patricia Crone, Étienne de la Vaissière and Khodadad Rezakhani have consid- ered selected documents in order to answer questions on religious conversion, nationality (of the Hephthalites), and economic history, respectively.


    It is not hard to find evidence of provenance embedded within the text of the documents. A number of particular places are mentioned and most are identifiable on a map of northern Afghanistan today, including Rōb (Ar. Ruʾb, modern-day Rūy-i Duāb13), Samangān (Ar. Siminjān), Bāmiyān and a certain Kadagstān (see map, Figure 1). A significant number of the documents seem to belong to a family archive from Rōb. Rōb, Samangān and Bāmiyān, which are central to the Bactrian documents, are mentioned by Ibn Khurradādbih (d. c. 300/911) and al-Tạbarī (d.310/923) as pertaining to “Tụkhāristān district”, which they position, in turn, in the eastern part of Khurāsān province.
    Azad, Arezou. "Living Happily ever after: fraternal polyandry, taxes and “the house” in early Islamic Bactria." Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 79, no. 01 (2016): 33-56.

    http://www.academia.edu/23048999/Bul...slamic_Bactria

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    You seriously have mental issues bruh. Your like Barnacle but a much bigger troll. Northern Pakistanis(most of whom are ethnic Pashtuns) look indistinguishable from NE Afghans and there is an overlap with upper caste NW South Asians , its not like you magically turn South Indian once you cross the Durrand line. The ethnogenesis of Pashtuns generally speaking follows the same one as NW South Asians, basically mainly Neolithic Iranians/Iran Hotu + Indo Iranian Steppe + ASI and possibly a yet to be discovered Central Asian forager population.
    How come nobody believes that except for the people on this site? They phenotypically overlap with Iranians more than anyone. Smart guy, obviously Pakistani Pashtuns look alike, but Punjabis don't overlap with afghans and kashmiris and sindhis barely do, phenotypically.
    Last edited by Heteorchromia; 09-24-2016 at 08:55 PM.

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    Btw I'm not a not a sock puppet account and can prove it. Stop making up excuses to derail my argument.

    Maybe a bunch of afghans are mad because half of this section is full of indians comparing pashtuns to indians 24/7 instead of to other AFGHANS, and then other times to Kurds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Pashtuns have a very ancient presence in Afghanistan and Tajiks are mainly descendants of Bactrians, Sogdians and other Iranic tribes which populated in pre-islamic times Afghanistan. Most of northern, western/central and southern Afghanistan was already mainly Iranic since the Bronze Age. I think proto-pashtuns settled in southern/eastern Afghanistan already in the Bronze Age but became dominant in eastern Afghanistan much later. Yes eastern Afghanistan had a large Indo-Aryan population and for a long time they were the majority but that does not mean that Iranics did not exist there. Buddhism and Brahmanic Hinduism was in his best times mainly a religion of urban people and the higher class. I doubt it was very important outside of the urban centers among rural tribal communities. Most people had polytheistic archaic Indo-Iranian cults/religions similar to that of Nuristani and Kalash. Indo-Aryan civilization and Indian religions were sponsored by Iranic rulers like Kushan and Saka which actually encouraged the Indianization of eastern Afghanistan. The region was very much multi-cultural and multi-ethnic and there was no strict divide between Iranics, Indo-Aryans and other peoples there
    Indo-Aryans WERE Iranic, what do NOT get? The modern people who speak indo-aryan languages don't represent the people who gave them those languages. Even Sanskrit is Iranic/Indo-Iranian. Nothing you say makes any sense right now honestly. "Indic" is not a language family, just cultures and languages speaker by indians. No people of Afghanistan were ever indic, they were historically Iranic. Dravidian languages are the original languages of India. Aryan invaders from Afghanistan brought indo-aryan languages such as Sanskrit, etc. Nothing in Afghanistan was ever like any bung that's modern indian. Nuristani people are proof of this. Their language, culture, and even religion are much closer to iranic than to anything indic despite being "dardic." Buddhism was present for a short time in Afghanistan. Islam was also present in Spain as well at one point, does that make them arabs? Stop trying to indian wash afghans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heteorchromia View Post
    Indo-Aryans WERE Iranic, what do NOT get? The modern people who speak indo-aryan languages don't represent the people who gave them those languages. Even Sanskrit is Iranic/Indo-Iranian. Nothing you say makes any sense right now honestly. "Indic" is not a language family, just cultures and languages speaker by indians. No people of Afghanistan were ever indic, they were historically Iranic. Dravidian languages are the original languages of India. Aryan invaders from Afghanistan brought indo-aryan languages such as Sanskrit, etc. Nothing in Afghanistan was ever like any bung that's modern indian. Nuristani people are proof of this. Their language, culture, and even religion are much closer to iranic than to anything indic despite being "dardic." Buddhism was present for a short time in Afghanistan. Islam was also present in Spain as well at one point, does that make them arabs? Stop trying to indian wash afghans.
    No and please understand that Indo-Aryans dont have to look South Asian, to "eat curry" or to be Indian. The first Proto-Indo-Aryans of the Eurasian steppe were genetically most similar to modern day Lithuanians/Volga Finns and looked europid in many cases even North European. Their culture was tribal and semi-nomadic. But they spoke some kind of proto-sanskrit and were as much as Indo-Aryan as modern day Indo-Aryan Indians. After Proto-Indo-Aryans moved into Central Asia they mixed with BMAC and other local Neolithic cultures. From here they moved west and east so that some of them even settled in Syria and Iran but only in India/Pakistan/East Afghanistan they survived. Being Indo-Aryan has nothing to do with race and yes modern day Indo-Aryans/Dardics of Afghanistan are genetically and phenotypically very similar to Pashtuns but that does not make them Iranic. You just seem to be racist towards "dark" South Asians but the truth is that everyone in Afghanistan has ASI ancestry from Onge/Australoid/Negrito looking people just get over it. Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan and saying it is Iranic is either trolling or idiotic. Nuristani were for the most time very hostile towards muslim iranics and yes their culture and language is very different from Indian culture but neither it is iranic. They are a seperate group different from both Indo-Aryans and Iranics.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 09-25-2016 at 01:01 AM.

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    This thread is all over the place. I don't understand the arguments.

    Because people were once Buddhist there is no such thing as Afghans? Ahmed Shah Durrani is actually the reincarnation of Ashoka and his empire was the worldly manifestation of Nirvana. Hinduism rose somewhere in the western regions of South Asia. Bengalis were/are Hindus, ergo, Bengalis don't exist. Every ethnic group within the largest extent of contiguous South Asian empires are actually just one people. Obviously, because a map shaded the area all one color, I've seen it. All of Europe is actually Roman.

    Because a Punjabi is closer genetically to a Tamil than a Pashtun is, they are mutually exclusive genetic populations? The genetic cline actually begins at the Indus river, there were no bridges in the old days. The Hindukush is actually named so, because it releases routine bursts of gamma rays from its southern faces that are carried by the arid Loo winds eastward, rendering Hindus and their descendants infertile if they venture near. Thus, preventing all gene-flow from the massive population centers on both sides. Unsubstantiated reports claim that the Burusho have learned to harness this power, explaining their longevity. However, as Jurassic Park tells us, nature finds a way. Magical embers carrying the essence of Avestan, rise from ever-burning Zoroastrian fires, riding a soft Steppe breeze 1000 miles over sparsely-populated Western Afghanistan/Eastern Iran in a yearly Iranic cross-pollination event.

    ...Logic, people.

    Afghanistan exists at a crossroads, so maybe that is exactly what it is? By attempting to simplify the region as either A or B, all anyone is actually doing is complicating the issue. It is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I find myself currently reflecting on and praying for the man whose profound vision gave us the Venn Diagram. It is an emotional moment for me. For the first time, its purpose is clear... I finally understand.
    If old noir black & white photography tickles your fancy: Hidden Content
    [I do, respectfully, ask that one doesn't repost, rehost, copy, save, or share the family photos -- such old personal family photos are rare in South Asia, and I would like to share them with those who are curious; I hope I do not regret the decision. The rest of the pictures are publically available online, so do with as you like!]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heteorchromia View Post
    Indo-Aryans WERE Iranic, what do NOT get? The modern people who speak indo-aryan languages don't represent the people who gave them those languages. Even Sanskrit is Iranic/Indo-Iranian. Nothing you say makes any sense right now honestly. "Indic" is not a language family, just cultures and languages speaker by indians. No people of Afghanistan were ever indic, they were historically Iranic. Dravidian languages are the original languages of India. Aryan invaders from Afghanistan brought indo-aryan languages such as Sanskrit, etc. Nothing in Afghanistan was ever like any bung that's modern indian. Nuristani people are proof of this. Their language, culture, and even religion are much closer to iranic than to anything indic despite being "dardic." Buddhism was present for a short time in Afghanistan. Islam was also present in Spain as well at one point, does that make them arabs? Stop trying to indian wash afghans.
    LOL, Coldmountains is probably one of the best experts I have met on Indo Iranian/Steppe culture. Its one thing to disagree its another thing to make an utter ass of yourself .

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