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Thread: European ancestry in Iran

  1. #11
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    I have the opposite, although it could be used to support contact and exchange between NW Europe and Western Asia during the past. I'm NW European but my Y (L-M20) originates in Western Asia, between Anatolia and Central Asia. The sub clades of L1b (if not L1 itself) appear most varied south of the Caucasus, between Anatolia and Pakistan. They date back towards the end of the last Ice Age, where they most likely provenance to a zone near to the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. Some Y haplogroup L lines have likely been around Europe for a very long time - it looks multiple entry into Europe (L2 and L-M349). However mine does not appear to have been here so long. I'd best guessitmate that my Y moved from the Iran/Pakistan Zone, to here in Southern England sometime between the Later (Western) Roman and Early Post Medieval. For a while I suspected a C15/C16 Portuguese link to Asia. However, I realise that I must be more open minded to the possibilities.

    I have found five Y cousins with low STR marker results, that all originate from Southern England - but all with the same surname (not mine), all appear to have descended from one paternal grandfather that lived at Basingstoke during the 1740s. My paternal grandfather at that time, lived only 31 miles away in the Thames Valley, Berkshire. From that, I might assume from the matched STR evidence, and geographical location, that the Y MRCA in both of our surname lines, arrived in England most likely not more recent than 500 years ago. I have Big Y tested, and my last terminal SNP was shared with only one other tester so far - and he was a Balochi speaker in Makran, SW Pakistan. My understanding is that the Balochi migrated over a long period from an area south of the Caspian. My nearest Y111 match is a guy who's paternal line came from Birjand, East Khorasan, Iran. Dating of a MRCA is difficult with so few matches, but it looks likely to be less than 2,000 years ago. My Y journey is L M20+M22+M317+SK1412+SK1414. I have a further 117 novel SNPs awaiting matches. Another STR tester has been clustered with us, from Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, another STR tester, of Azores paternal ancestry, that matches fairly well, has a marker (10 at DYS393) that a previous study associated with Parsi*. That's pretty much it with recorded matches within the past several thousand years.

    I'm probably stretching it to propose "Iran" as the home of our MRCA, but certainly, that region has been home at times to some of my Y ancestors, while more specifically, Eastern Iran / SW Pakistan, and the surrounding zones, look most likely to be the last Asian home of my Y line until 2,000 years ago, probably later. The line then pops up next in Southern England, by 500 years ago at the very latest. That no other L-SK1414 have yet been traced to Europe, or anywhere in Europe between Southern England, and Iran / Pakistan, might under the present very limited evidence, suggest that I had a Y ancestor, that at some point during the Medieval (or say, between 1,800 and 500 years ago) moved in one generation across Europe.

    Therefore, an example of admixture moving in the opposite direction.

    By the way, autosomal DNA testing for ancestry (23andMe AC, FTDNA FF, WEGENE analysis, DNA.land analysis, and a variety of GEDMATCH calculators do not suggest that I have any residual Asian ancestry, nor matches, above that to be expected for a NW European, so I'd suggest that my Y arrived in Southern England long enough for any autosomal evidence to be washed out by recombination.

    Reference *. Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan. Raheel Qamar etal. 2002.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
    279 of my direct ancestors recorded. 277 appear SE English. 2,400+ names in my kid's joint family tree.
    Hidden Content .

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    Again, the point of this thread isn't to prove that Iran has had a major recent genetic impact by europeans, which has shaped or altered our genomic profile, because it never happened. The point of this thread is to simply shed light and discuss how and where some of the possible distant european connections came to be for some Iranians. Not every Iranian will have european admixture, but your probably going to come across an amount that do.

    Also, Im fairly certain that unless an Iranian has significantly high recent european ancestry (in the high double digit percentages, at parent/grandparent level), you will never find "a single genetic profile of an Iranian that looks as european", but that doesn't mean there is no european admixture, because any european admixture Iranians have wouldn't be significant enough to shift their profiles to look european. As a fine example, I plot as a normal Iranian and cluster where I should, despite having a grandparent of part east asian ancestry. The admixture wasn't significant enough to shift us elsewhere.
    There's so much written with little evidence provide. Just post genetic profile of an Iranian (there 80 millions living in Iran) showing you have genetic similarities with Europeans. I am certain people of northern Caucasus such as Adyghe are more genetically European than the rest of people from the region. They don't talk about the 'Europeaness'.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    There's so much written with little evidence provide. Just post genetic profile of an Iranian (there 80 millions living in Iran) showing you have genetic similarities with Europeans. I am certain people of northern Caucasus such as Adyghe are more genetically European than the rest of people from the region. They don't talk about the 'Europeaness'.
    I provided links in my first post which give a fair amount of credibility as to how the contact could be made (mostly via trade in the 1500's-1800's), the rest is up in smoke in terms of providing you with genetic evidence. What sort of genetic profile do you want to see, do you want PCA plots? 23andme results? because like i said, not every Iranian will have european admixture, this isn't something where choosing by random can wield a conclusion, there's either something there or there isn't.

    Once again, the aim of this thread isn't "genetic similarities" between Iranians and europeans......
    Last edited by ancestryfan1994; 09-23-2016 at 05:03 PM.

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    Theres a good chance we have some european input from a few places based on our relatives detected, and some admixture results. But I'm not going to say its definitive until me and my brother can get some more hard evidence to support it.
    Interesting.

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    I provided links in my first post which give a fair amount of credibility as to how the contact could be made (mostly via trade in the 1500's-1800's), the rest is up in smoke in terms of providing you with genetic evidence. What sort of genetic profile do you want to see, do you want PCA plots? 23andme results? because like i said, not every Iranian will have european admixture, this isn't something where choosing by random can wield a conclusion, there's either something there or there isn't.

    Once again, the aim of this thread isn't "genetic similarities" between Iranians and europeans......
    Anything. 23andme admxitures, PCA will do.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Anything. 23andme admxitures, PCA will do.
    Ok, well in this case, Ill use my own family as an example in a quick rundown.

    Since we started testing our genomes to learn about our family history, there was a persistent signal that there could be some sort of Iberian like connection in the family. This has been evident from the abnormal amount of relatives we seem to have from places like Mexico and Cuba, across all of the genetic companies, it wasn't just 23andme that would assign people from these places in our relatives list. A lot of them have their family trees up/admixture results with no middle eastern like ancestry, just pure Latin names.

    Once our fathers genome was phased, our admixture results updated to reflect a more accurate picture, and alongside this, an Iberian segment was assigned. Not to mention, certain admixture calculators in GEDmatch have Iberian populations show up in the oracles, normally I'd pass off some of the oracles, but in this case it does seem to correlate with the other genetic evidence. There's still some further digging to do in order to fully be comfortable with it, but all in all it looks highly likely that there is Iberian in the family.
    Last edited by ancestryfan1994; 09-23-2016 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    Ok, well in this case, Ill use my own family as an example in a quick rundown.

    Since we started testing our genomes to learn about our family history, there was a persistent signal that there could be some sort of Iberian like connection in the family. This has been evident from the abnormal amount of relatives we seem to have from places like Mexico and Cuba, across all of the genetic companies, it wasn't just 23andme that would assign people from these places in our relatives list. A lot of them have their family trees up/admixture results with no middle eastern like ancestry, just pure latin names. Once our fathers genome was phased, our admixture results updated to reflect a more accurate picture, and alongside this, an Iberian segment was assigned. Not to mention, certain admixture calculators in GEDmatch have Iberian populations show up in the oracles, normally I'd pass off some of the oracles, but in this case it does seem to correlate with the other genetic evidence.
    Mate! Just post the results on Iranic genetics.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Mate! Just post the results on Iranic genetics.
    Isn't that a good enough example seeing as that's what this threads about?

    I really think your having difficulties understanding what the intentions of this thread is.

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  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    Isn't that a good enough example seeing as that's what this threads about?

    I really think your having difficulties understanding what the intentions of this thread is.
    I really have a difficulty understanding your blabbering. Post DNA profile of a regular Iranian. I am asking this for the 3rd time.
    Last edited by Volat; 09-23-2016 at 05:49 PM.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    I have a difficulty understanding you. Post the DNA result of a regular Iranian. For God's sake man.
    Yes, you clearly do misunderstand the whole point of this thread. I advise you to go over the original post I made a few times before we continue.

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