Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 70

Thread: Great Britain DNA Category - Is it really Germanic?

  1. #11
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    878
    Sex
    Location
    Norfolk, East Anglia, UK
    Ethnicity
    English
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    L-SK1414
    mtDNA
    H6a1a8

    East Anglia England European Union
    Our autosomal DNA tests compare our results with modern day reference populations. When we are looking to the distant past, we should be aware that these are modern populations that our results are being compared to. Since ancient times there has been admixture and a degree of genetic drift.

    In the case of the Irish and British Isles, what is normally expected to be shared right across that population, including even us admixed English, is the pre admixture base. This in my opinion often reflects the late prehistoric population which if the current trend of thinking is correct, descends from the founders of the Bell Beaker culture, that arrived here circa 4,000 years ago, with an adjustment of shared selective and genetic drift.

    Judging by what I have seen on 23andme forums, the Irish and Scottish have the highest percentages of this reference. I would expect Welsh may be similar.
    Last edited by A Norfolk L-M20; 09-15-2016 at 10:07 AM.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
    Hidden Content .

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to A Norfolk L-M20 For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), sgdavies@hotmail.com (09-15-2016), sktibo (09-15-2016)

  3. #12
    Banned
    Posts
    78
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    I'm Welsh with a Welsh name and was a initially a bit disappointed to find out my Ydna is U106, probably of Saxon origin but I agree with the post above.
    As far as Britain goes, the way I look at it is I'm the product of thousands of years of migration and history, I've got dna from different people from different periods. That's what made Britain what it is.
    Possibly you might have some Norse ancestry if that makes you feel better.
    I have yet to see anyone prove where their ancestral line came from beyond their paper trail and we have not seen one person prove a link to any one of the ancient dna samples. It is how you feel today what is important about your identity and you are not your ancestor. Meanwhile the dna companies will spew out a lot of spin to get you and me to part with our hard earned cash.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mouse For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (09-15-2016), Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), sktibo (09-15-2016)

  5. #13
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,798
    Sex
    Location
    B.C.
    Ethnicity
    Métis
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA
    T2B-T152C

    Canada England Scotland Germany France
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    I was just reading your post again and was going to reply further because I replied in haste earlier. I have to admit though I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to understanding dna.
    I have no say firstly that I'm a bit wary of the term "British" dna - what does that mean? British dna come from successive migrations of peoples and it all came from somewhere else at some point.There are some genetic influences in relation to Britain which are earlier than others which you could define as "celtic" or earier It may be helpful if you can post more information on your tests as people with more knowledge than me may be able to advise on the origins and time periods relevant to Britain and Ireland.
    I tested originally with Cymru/Britain's dna and I think I'm right in saying they don't even use the descriptor "British dna". I would guess that anyone with origins in Great Britain will a fairly broad range of genetic influences although they will vary across the country. It is too simplistic to think of the English just in terms of Anglo/Saxon.
    I'm doing more tests and waiting for the results of FTDNA "Family Finder" to see where I might get matches either in Britain or elsewhere and I may follow that up with Big Y. I think we have to be very cautious in drawing conclusions from some of these results, because there is an awful lot that still has to be discovered.
    I probably should have defined these things previously, but here goes:
    So for the purpose of this thread I'm referring to the two categories of British and Irish which are part of Ancestry DNA's ethnicity estimate. I'm using the term "Celtic" to describe populations indigenous to Britain and or Ireland. I'm using the term "Germanic" to describe people who are indigenous to Northern mainland Europe and or Scandinavia... "North Sea" is probably a better term for them. A little research indicated that the British population sample comes from people that are from eastern England, and that the Great Britain category is usually the primary ethnic component for Dutch/ Frisian and German people as well. People from Scotland and Wales generally seem to fall into the Ireland category, and thus a conclusion made by many on the AncestryDNA forum posts is that Irish essentially means "Celtic" and Great Britain means "Germanic". Of course you are correct to point out that this kind of technology is in it's infancy, so I'll be hoping that I'm wrong about much of this!

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016)

  7. #14
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    878
    Sex
    Location
    Norfolk, East Anglia, UK
    Ethnicity
    English
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    L-SK1414
    mtDNA
    H6a1a8

    East Anglia England European Union
    If the British reference for Ancestry DNA comes from Eastern England, that is trite. It would be an English reference, NOT British. But not only that, it's from a population that we know to be rich in admixture over the past few thousand years.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
    Hidden Content .

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to A Norfolk L-M20 For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), sgdavies@hotmail.com (09-15-2016), sktibo (09-15-2016)

  9. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,798
    Sex
    Location
    B.C.
    Ethnicity
    Métis
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA
    T2B-T152C

    Canada England Scotland Germany France
    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    If the British reference for Ancestry DNA comes from Eastern England, that is trite. It would be an English reference, NOT British. But not only that, it's from a population that we know to be rich in admixture over the past few thousand years.
    I cannot argue with your logic on that. I thank you for sharing your knowledge on this subject

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016)

  11. #16
    Banned
    Posts
    78
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I probably should have defined these things previously, but here goes:
    So for the purpose of this thread I'm referring to the two categories of British and Irish which are part of Ancestry DNA's ethnicity estimate. I'm using the term "Celtic" to describe populations indigenous to Britain and or Ireland. I'm using the term "Germanic" to describe people who are indigenous to Northern mainland Europe and or Scandinavia... "North Sea" is probably a better term for them. A little research indicated that the British population sample comes from people that are from eastern England, and that the Great Britain category is usually the primary ethnic component for Dutch/ Frisian and German people as well. People from Scotland and Wales generally seem to fall into the Ireland category, and thus a conclusion made by many on the AncestryDNA forum posts is that Irish essentially means "Celtic" and Great Britain means "Germanic". Of course you are correct to point out that this kind of technology is in it's infancy, so I'll be hoping that I'm wrong about much of this!
    A man who lived and died in Italy 14,000 years ago had the North Sea component, or perhaps the people of the North Sea has his SNPs. Most Scottish ,Irish and Welsh have around 30-40% of this North Sea dna. The Eurogenes K15 calculator is the only one that I know shows it. The dodecad K7b is the best calculator for my ancestry.

    Villabruna 14,180 ybp M236020
    Eurogenes K15
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 40.49
    2 Baltic 28.24
    3 Atlantic 22.57
    4 Eastern_Euro 8.69

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mouse For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), sgdavies@hotmail.com (09-15-2016), sktibo (09-16-2016)

  13. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,798
    Sex
    Location
    B.C.
    Ethnicity
    Métis
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA
    T2B-T152C

    Canada England Scotland Germany France
    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    A man who lived and died in Italy 14,000 years ago had the North Sea component, or perhaps the people of the North Sea has his SNPs. Most Scottish ,Irish and Welsh have around 30-40% of this North Sea dna. The Eurogenes K15 calculator is the only one that I know shows it. The dodecad K7b is the best calculator for my ancestry.

    Villabruna 14,180 ybp M236020
    Eurogenes K15
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 40.49
    2 Baltic 28.24
    3 Atlantic 22.57
    4 Eastern_Euro 8.69
    Very interesting, well then perhaps North Sea is not a suitable term for Germanic.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016)

  15. #18
    Banned
    Posts
    78
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Very interesting, well then perhaps North Sea is not a suitable term for Germanic.
    Here are the results of three Hunter Gatherers whose dna is found in the modern populations of the North Sea, Atlantic,Baltic and Eastern Europe.
    K15
    Villabruna 14,180 ybp M236020 found in Italy
    Eurogenes K15
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 40.49
    2 Baltic 28.24
    3 Atlantic 22.57
    4 Eastern_Euro 8.69

    Lochsbour F999918 8000 ybp found in Luxembourg
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 34.51
    2 Baltic 33.51
    3 Atlantic 23.86
    4 Eastern_Euro 7.33

    La Brana F999915 7000 ybp found in Spain
    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 30.24
    2 North_Sea 29.34
    3 Baltic 28.15
    4 Eastern_Euro 11.87

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mouse For This Useful Post:

     Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), Mike_G (09-17-2016), sktibo (09-16-2016)

  17. #19
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,542
    Sex
    Location
    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    A man who lived and died in Italy 14,000 years ago had the North Sea component, or perhaps the people of the North Sea has his SNPs. Most Scottish ,Irish and Welsh have around 30-40% of this North Sea dna. The Eurogenes K15 calculator is the only one that I know shows it. The dodecad K7b is the best calculator for my ancestry.

    Villabruna 14,180 ybp M236020
    Eurogenes K15
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 40.49
    2 Baltic 28.24
    3 Atlantic 22.57
    4 Eastern_Euro 8.69
    Some good interesting posts on this thread . We tend to look at these things through relatively modern concepts of Nationality and Countries.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JohnHowellsTyrfro For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (09-16-2016), Jessie (09-16-2016), sktibo (09-16-2016)

  19. #20
    Registered Users
    Posts
    461
    Sex
    Location
    Waterville, ME
    Ethnicity
    Great Migration Colonists
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
    mtDNA
    J1c2g (FMS)

    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I have yet to see anyone prove where their ancestral line came from beyond their paper trail and we have not seen one person prove a link to any one of the ancient dna samples. It is how you feel today what is important about your identity and you are not your ancestor. Meanwhile the dna companies will spew out a lot of spin to get you and me to part with our hard earned cash.
    It all depends on what you mean by "prove". In my personal Y-DNA testing, (being a subclade below R-U106), it is basically proven this clade was still in Asia during the LGM (Last Glacial Maximum). Ancient DNA results have so far shown where the parent clade of both R-U106 & R-P312 did not enter Europe until sometime around the Iron Age. We had no way of knowing any of this information prior to DNA testing.

    Taking Y-DNA further: I was able to discover from STR testing (confirmed by SNP testing) where my Wing family is fairly closely related to the Howland family of Mayflower fame. Even at 67 STR markers it is difficult (but not impossible) to distinguish between the two families (there are basically only 2 STR differences). These two surnames fall under S10415 clade with a handful of other surnames. Thus far, this clade has only been found in England & Scotland, but their are hints some of the families have Flemish ties. S10415 falls under a subclade of Z8 and long before the Z8 SNP was actually discovered, the STR cluster associated with this clade was found to have a high peak in ancient Frisia (and Flanders can be said to have evolved from Frisia).

    Even with mtDNA testing, I have been able to extend my own personal ancestry. My "umbilical" line (mother's mother's mother's etc.) had a paper-trail end due to two contemporary Phebe Lovejoys of Andover, Massachusetts. They were first cousins (as their father's were brothers). I was able to prove which of these two Phebes was my ancestry due to a mtDNA match to a descendant of Phebe's sister, Hannah Lovejoy (who married Jacob Stanley). With this mtDNA "proof" I was able to show where my ancestry came from the area in or near Cransford, Suffolkshire, England.

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wing Genealogist For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (09-17-2016), Jessie (09-16-2016), JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-16-2016), Judith (08-26-2017)

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Map - Native Tribes of Great Britain.
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum History (Ancient)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-12-2016, 01:55 PM
  2. R-U106 in Great Britain: Distribution map
    By Passa in forum R1b-U106
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: 07-26-2016, 04:25 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-14-2016, 03:42 AM
  4. Most Popular Surnames in Great Britain - Mapped.
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum Genealogy
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-07-2016, 08:55 PM
  5. Regional Personality Differences in Great Britain
    By Jean M in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-10-2015, 06:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •