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Thread: Great Britain DNA Category - Is it really Germanic?

  1. #21
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    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    mouse: In addition, my mtDNA is J1c2g. J1 has been found in the "Fertile Crescent" (where it is believed farming first started) and it is likely my "umbilical" line was among the Neolithic Revolution which brought farming to Western Europe. Again, this evidence was only found with DNA testing.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    It all depends on what you mean by "prove". In my personal Y-DNA testing, (being a subclade below R-U106), it is basically proven this clade was still in Asia during the LGM (Last Glacial Maximum). Ancient DNA results have so far shown where the parent clade of both R-U106 & R-P312 did not enter Europe until sometime around the Iron Age. We had no way of knowing any of this information prior to DNA testing.

    Taking Y-DNA further: I was able to discover from STR testing (confirmed by SNP testing) where my Wing family is fairly closely related to the Howland family of Mayflower fame. Even at 67 STR markers it is difficult (but not impossible) to distinguish between the two families (there are basically only 2 STR differences). These two surnames fall under S10415 clade with a handful of other surnames. Thus far, this clade has only been found in England & Scotland, but their are hints some of the families have Flemish ties. S10415 falls under a subclade of Z8 and long before the Z8 SNP was actually discovered, the STR cluster associated with this clade was found to have a high peak in ancient Frisia (and Flanders can be said to have evolved from Frisia).

    Even with mtDNA testing, I have been able to extend my own personal ancestry. My "umbilical" line (mother's mother's mother's etc.) had a paper-trail end due to two contemporary Phebe Lovejoys of Andover, Massachusetts. They were first cousins (as their father's were brothers). I was able to prove which of these two Phebes was my ancestry due to a mtDNA match to a descendant of Phebe's sister, Hannah Lovejoy (who married Jacob Stanley). With this mtDNA "proof" I was able to show where my ancestry came from the area in or near Cransford, Suffolkshire, England.
    Was R1b-P312 not found in two ancient samples from the Bell Beaker Culture in Germany with radio carbon dates of around 2,600 BC?!!
    Last edited by mouse; 09-16-2016 at 12:43 PM.

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (09-17-2016)

  4. #23
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    Dartraighe got bored at Molgen?

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    Was R1b-P312 not found in two ancient samples from the Bell Beaker Culture in Germany with radio carbon dates of around 2,600 BC?!!
    I mis-spoke when I said the Iron Age. I meant the Bronze Age, which preceded the Iron Age but came after the Neolithic & the Farming revolution in Europe. The Corded Ware & Bell Beaker Cultures were in the middle of the Bronze Age.

    In any case, R-L51 & its immediate ancestors were not found in Europe during the Neolithic age.
    Last edited by Wing Genealogist; 09-16-2016 at 10:47 PM.

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (09-17-2016)

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    A little research indicated that the British population sample comes from people that are from eastern England, and that the Great Britain category is usually the primary ethnic component for Dutch/ Frisian and German people as well. People from Scotland and Wales generally seem to fall into the Ireland category, and thus a conclusion made by many on the AncestryDNA forum posts is that Irish essentially means "Celtic" and Great Britain means "Germanic".
    From my own limited observation among 10 Dutch results, 2 Belgian ones and 1 German, socalled "Great Britain" was reported as biggest region three times. "Europe West" being more prevalent but indeed going by the Dutch group averages it's fair to say that "Great Britain" seems to be a major genetic component (as it is also on 23andme).

    Traditionally the Dutch people are said to descend from the Frisians, the Franks and the Saxons. The Saxons of course also being prominent among the Anglo-Saxon settlers of Great Britain! Obviously simplified historical interpretations are liable to seriously underestimate complicated and messy population genetics However i have also been pondering the question if there is any (rough) correlation between the region “Great Britain” and presumedly Saxon origins for both the Dutch and the English.

    Continuing the same line of thought could “Europe West” (very roughly) be indicative of mostly Frankish lineage (atleast for the Dutch)? And socalled "Scandinavian" suggestive of Frisian lineage (again within the Dutch context)? Socalled "Ireland" scores are generally rather subdued for the Dutch sofar (see median) which is in line with "Celtic" influences often being assumed to have been minimal in the Netherlands. Therefore corroborating the predictive accuracy of the Ireland region i suppose. However for a few individuals it did show up with considerable amounts.

    Dutch & French AncestryDNA results


    Last edited by Don Felipe; 08-25-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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    Exploring the Ethnic Origins of the Afro-Diaspora

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    From my own limited observation among 10 Dutch results, 2 Belgian ones and 1 German, socalled "Great Britain" was reported as biggest region three times. "Europe West" being more prevalent but indeed going by the Dutch group averages it's fair to say that "Great Britain" seems to be a major genetic component (as it is also on 23andme).

    Traditionally the Dutch people are said to descend from the Frisians, the Franks and the Saxons. The Saxons of course also being prominent among the Anglo-Saxon settlers of Great Britain! Obviously simplified historical interpretations are liable to seriously underestimate complicated and messy population genetics However i have also been pondering the question if there is any (rough) correlation between the regions “Great Britain” and presumedly Saxon origins for both the Dutch and the English.

    Continuing the same line of thought could “Europe West” (very roughly) be indicative of mostly Frankish lineage (atleast for the Dutch)? And socalled "Scandinavian" suggestive of Frisian lineage (again within the Dutch context)? Socalled "Ireland" scores are generally rather subdued for the Dutch sofar (see median) which is in line with "Celtic" influences often being assumed to have been minimal in the Netherlands. Therefore corroborating the predictive accuracy of the Ireland region i suppose. However for some individuals it does show up with considerable amounts.

    Dutch & French AncestryDNA results


    I agree that Europe West probably has a Frankish or Belgae correlation since it peaks in Belgium.

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     Amerijoe (08-25-2017), sgdavies@hotmail.com (08-25-2017)

  11. #27
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    I'm not convinced it actually means GB at all.

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