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Thread: Armenian- R1b

  1. #1
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    Armenian- R1b

    R1b1* P25+ V88- P297- M335-
    R1b1a2* M269+ L23- L49- should order PF7558, PF7562, PF7563
    R1b1a2a2a L49+ L23+ L150+ L277+ (=Y4362+)
    R1b1a2a2a L49+ L23+ L150+ L584+
    R1b1a2a2a L49+ L23+ L150+ Z2016+ Z2109+ CTS7763+
    R1b1a2a2a L49+ L23+ L150+ Z2016+ Z2109+ CTS7822+
    R1b1a2az1a* L11+ U106- P312-
    R1b1a2az1a2a P312+ DF27+ A431+ A432+

    Armin1-L584+
    R-Y18441/PH1141-
    R-FGC-14590/PF7580-
    R-L943-
    R-Y16852-
    R-Y11410-
    R-FGC14600-

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/R1b-M26...08_03_2016.pdf[/QUOTE]
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  3. #2
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    4 new Armenian R1b Big Y s uploaded. Waiting interpretation results.


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4364/

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    Another person is found to be related to Rise 397 R1b Z2106 CTS7763 https://yfull.com/tree/R-CTS8966/

    His ancestor is from Khodorchur Ispir
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sırakonak,_İspir

    He ordered SNP pack.
    Last edited by Arame; 01-27-2017 at 08:31 AM.

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  7. #4
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    Lazistan Turkey United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    4 new Armenian R1b Big Y s uploaded. Waiting interpretation results.


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4364/
    Are they all related?
    Paternal Y-DNA: R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>L584>FGC14590 (Big-Y); Yfull ID: YF5208; Osman Sari b.1771 M3'anu / Vicealti / Lazistan
    Maternal mtDna: N1b1 (FS); Gulsum Yapici, b. 1894 in Siyat / Art'aseni / Lazistan
    Paternal mtDna: U3b2a1(FS); Elmas Kalayci, b. 190X in Kvancareri / Art'aseni / Lazistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by XooR View Post
    Are they all related?
    No they are not relatives. Maybe two of them are distantly related. The interpretation by Yfull is not complete, they are not assigned SNPs yet.

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    R1b-Z2103>Y14416

    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    4 new Armenian R1b Big Y s uploaded. Waiting interpretation results.


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4364/
    We would be most grateful if you would add those kits to YFull group R1b-M343 (xP312 xU106).https://www.yfull.com/groups/r1b-M343-xP312-xU106/
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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  12. #7
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    Hopefully, many more ancient Armenian samples will be coming online this year, at the earliest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    4 new Armenian R1b Big Y s uploaded. Waiting interpretation results.https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4364/
    I hope you don't mind re-posting/adding some of your work on this thread. Comparing your breakdown of R1b in Armenians. In light of article below,

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...439-017-1770-2

    Genetic differentiation between upland and lowland populations shapes the Y-chromosomal landscape of West Asia

    O. Balanovsky, M. Chukhryaeva, V. Zaporozhchenko, V. Urasin, M. Zhabagin, A. Hovhannisyan, A. Agdzhoyan, K. Dibirova, M. Kuznetsova, S. Koshel, E. Pocheshkhova, I. Alborova, R. Skhalyakho, O. Utevska, The Genographic Consortium, Kh. Mustafin, L. Yepiskoposyan, C. Tyler-Smith, E. Balanovska

    First Online: 09 March 2017

    DOI: 10.1007/s00439-017-1770-2

    Abstract

    Y-chromosomal variation in West Asian populations has so far been studied in less detail than in the neighboring Europe. Here, we analyzed 598 Y-chromosomes from two West Asian subregions—Transcaucasia and the Armenian plateau—using 40 Y-SNPs and 17 Y-STRs and combined them with previously published data from the region. The West Asian populations fell into two clusters: upland populations from the Anatolian, Armenian and Iranian plateaus, and lowland populations from the Levant, Mesopotamia and the Arabian Peninsula. This geographic subdivision corresponds with the linguistic difference between Indo-European and Turkic speakers, on the one hand, and Semitic speakers, on the other. This subdivision could be traced back to the Neolithic epoch, when upland populations from the Anatolian and Iranian plateaus carried similar haplogroup spectra but did not overlap with lowland populations from the Levant. We also found that the initial gene pool of the Armenian motherland population has been well preserved in most groups of the Armenian Diaspora. In view of the contribution of West Asians to the autosomal gene pool of the steppe Yamnaya archaeological culture, we sequenced a large portion of the Y-chromosome in haplogroup R1b samples from present-day East European steppe populations. The ancient Yamnaya samples are located on the “eastern” R-GG400 branch of haplogroup R1b-L23, showing that the paternal descendants of the Yamnaya still live in the Pontic steppe and that the ancient Yamnaya population was not an important source of paternal lineages in present-day West Europeans.

    Majority of ancient Yamnaya fall into R1b-Z2109+.No R1b-L584+ or L277+ have been found in any of the yet sampled kurgans. This will probably change as more kurgans are sampled from various locations. However as it stands for now, Armenians with various R1b clades are not directly connected with the Yamnaya kurgans by snp R1b-Z2109+.

    R1b-Z2108-Z2109 Yamnaya-Sarmatian cluster

    http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/KMS67_02.pdf

    Work of Arame - dendrogram
    https://postimg.org/image/eq7b0ytyl/

    and breakdown of Armenian R1b

    There are some outdated informations here about Armenians.
    The majority of Armenians are L584 (60% of all R1b). Under L584 there is an obvious Armenian cluster with the age 3200 ybp. This basically put an end to speculations that Armenian R1b is related to Hurrians. Because Hurrians became extinct 3200 ago and it was Armenians who were expanding.
    It is this lineage. L584 - > PH4150 https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y18781/ formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 3200 ybp
    Notice that formation age 4700 ybp and the expansion age nicely fits into what was known linguistically about Armenians.

    The next most frequent is L277.1 (27% of all R1b)
    The third is the CTS7763 (~7% of all R1b) which Maciamo thinks is Greek. It was found in LBA Armenia in Kapan town. So it doesn't look Greek or alternatively Greeks entered from Anatolia.
    The fourth is PF7562 (~5% of all R1b) This branch look like it is a Hittite. It branches before L23. Upstream case is found in Laz NE Turkey. So it could mean that Hittites came from Maykop?
    And then we have Khndzoresk young cluster of L51 and few CTS7822 who recently specificaly tested by admins of Armenian DNA project to see how much impact is there from Balkans. Well not much. 6 cases from 1500 people. So this could be Thracians , Phrygians and others.

    Basically this confirms the idea that Armenians entered South Caucasus after the Kura-Araxes ended, bringing Kurganic culture into South Caucasus.
    Autosomally they look that they are coming from NW of Black Sea.

    Initially their territory was small, but at 1200 BC they profited from the chaotic situation in Near East end expanded their territory. This expansion is visible under the Armenian R1b-L584.

    https://postimg.org/image/eq7b0ytyl/


    CTS-7822
    is also equivalent to Z2110+



    Hovhannisyan et al.: Different waves and directions of Neolithic migrations in the Armenian Highland. Investigative Genetics 2014 5:15. doi:10.1186/s13323-014-0015-6

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2014/12/latest-speculation-about-r1b.html

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...tpUkZNUXM/view
    Last edited by Silesian; 03-14-2017 at 03:22 AM.
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  16. #9
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    Calling PH1639 'Armeno-Phrygian', rather than 'obvious Armenian cluster' would be more correct, I think. Even this is would be hypothetical and not very scientific. 3000 years is not couple of centuries to ascribe a cluster to a specific ethnic group with such certainty.

    There are many non-Armenians who are of that lineage (including yours truly) and even if all of the ancestors of the living PH1639-ers spoke a language that later evolved into Armenian, it is still incorrect to ascribe 'Armenianness' to their carriers. Especially if the MRCA was alive around 1200 BC, centuries before 'Armenia' began. and Hurro-Urartian languages were most certainly not extinct for another 1000 years after that.
    Last edited by Akatosh86; 06-29-2017 at 08:01 PM.

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