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Thread: Pashtun Deep Ancestry Using qpAdm (5 Population Sources)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Wrorajana, dagha pezrrepory de, tase bel kavkav naoomne laeri?… eshtamaal Weishei!
    Ho khor jaane d bal namone laram. Za ba ye wakarwi ke wakht laram

  2. #12
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    You can not use a modern population like Kurds to model ancient components. All modern populations are mixed and the West Asian ancestry of Afghans is too old and is surely not from Kurds or Proto-Kurds. Use Satsurbia or Kotias there is no sense in prefering Kurds over them here especially when you want to create a Caucasus based component. They lack EEF and SW asian admixture unlike Kurds and are much more similar to the West Asian ancestry of Pashtuns and other Central and South Asians.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-13-2016 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    You can not use a modern population like Kurds to model ancient components. All modern populations are mixed and the West Asian ancestry of Afghans is too old and is surely not from Kurds or Proto-Kurds. Use Satsurbia or Kotias there is no sense in prefering Kurds over them here. They lack EEF and SW asian admixture unlike Kurds and are much more similar to the West Asian ancestry of Pashtuns and other Central and South Asians.
    Kotias, EHG, Onge/tribal S Indian, Dai would be fine if the goal is to determine ancestral proportions in Pashtuns. However the reality of the matter is that it is extremely unlikely that the only caucuasus admixture into Pashtuns are unadmixed Kotias relatives from 8000 years ago. It is far more likely that caucuasus admixture into Pashtuns was inferred via ADMIXED Caucausus based groups such as Kurds, Georgians, Iranic peoples, etc throughout the neolithic and later.

    With regards to lacking EEF or what have you, the program assigns the percentages and how great the fit is.

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    Would you be doing qpAdm for non-Pashtuns as well? I'd be curious to at least try a Jatt Haryana sample and see how they fit with the modeling due to the fact they tend to cluster around Kaido. Obviously, the admixture clusters are due to more recent factors, but ruling in/out older contributions via qpAdm/IBS testing could prove insightful.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 05-13-2016 at 11:18 PM. Reason: IBS
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Would you be doing qpAdm for non-Pashtuns as well? I'd be curious to at least try a Jatt Haryana sample and see how they fit with the modeling due to the fact they tend to cluster around Kaido. Obviously, the admixture clusters are due to more recent factors, but ruling in/out older contributions via qpAdm/IBS testing could prove insightful.
    Hukam sir akhin te saayin. Since you are a great contributor and a nice presence. Give me a day or two

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    Hukam sir akhin te saayin. Since you are a great contributor and a nice presence. Give me a day or two
    Thank you. But perhaps, have others weigh in if it indeed useful? It was just an off-hand thought on my part, and I'd rather not have you waste time and resources if it's a futile exercise?
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

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    Interesting. Why do you think my results and Kandhari's differ? I wonder at what point in history the pashtun identity was formed. I'm guessing various people coagulated? And how is the probability assigned? For example, what if I get a 99% probability with another sample instead of Kurd C2 such as Iranian. How should I interpret that?
    "Humanity is all one body;
    To torture another is simply to wound yourself." - Rahman Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifluous View Post
    Interesting. Why do you think my results and Kandhari's differ?
    I believe the main reason why Kandharis have higher caucausus based admixture than E or N Pashtuns is because they live side by side with Balochis and Brahuis, and Balochis and Brahuis are very Kurd like in terms of total shared drift. In fact, I will be posting qpAdm for some Brahui and Baloch samples soon. You will notice that whereas you got good fits with 45% Kurd C2, and Kandhari with 60% Kurd C3, some Brahui and Baloch samples get very good fits with 95% Kurd modeling.
    I wonder at what point in history the pashtun identity was formed. I'm guessing various people coagulated?
    This is anyone's guess


    For example, what if I get a 99% probability with another sample instead of Kurd C2 such as Iranian. How should I interpret that?
    This in fact was the case when I replaced Kurd with Iranian, however, whereas with Kurd you got about 45% Kurd C2, with Iranian I believe it was about 36% Iranian. You got a higher % with Kurd because it resembled your genome more than the avg of the Iranian samples. It means both scenarios from a genetic perspective are very good. We would need to then look at other evidence to try to figure out whether Kurd C2 like was more likely or Iranian like. Basically it gives you a range for W Asian derived, steppe derived, S Indian derived, and E Asian derived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    I believe the main reason why Kandharis have higher caucausus based admixture than E or N Pashtuns is because they live side by side with Balochis and Brahuis, and Balochis and Brahuis are very Kurd like in terms of total shared drift. In fact, I will be posting qpAdm for some Brahui and Baloch samples soon. You will notice that whereas you got good fits with 45% Kurd C2, and Kandhari with 60% Kurd C3, some Brahui and Baloch samples get very good fits with 95% Kurd modeling.


    This is anyone's guess




    This in fact was the case when I replaced Kurd with Iranian, however, whereas with Kurd you got about 45% Kurd C2, with Iranian I believe it was about 36% Iranian. You got a higher % with Kurd because it resembled your genome more than the avg of the Iranian samples. It means both scenarios from a genetic perspective are very good. We would need to then look at other evidence to try to figure out whether Kurd C2 like was more likely or Iranian like. Basically it gives you a range for W Asian derived, steppe derived, S Indian derived, and E Asian derived.
    In other words, there are many scenarios that could give you a 99% probability? And all of them could be true?

    Thank you for the runs!
    Last edited by Mellifluous; 05-14-2016 at 05:34 AM.
    "Humanity is all one body;
    To torture another is simply to wound yourself." - Rahman Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifluous View Post
    In other words, there are many scenarios that could give you a 99% probability? And all of them could be true?

    Thank you for the runs!
    I ran various Caucausus and Iranian populations against Kurd C2. Surprisingly, he is closer to you than all the populations, except for Chechens (by a tiny bit).

    Table sorted from most similar to you, to least similar.

    NO SAMPLE1 SAMPLE2 TARGET OUT D Z SNPs
    1 Chechen .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla 0.0008 0.166 104677
    2 Adygei .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.002 -0.428 104677
    3 Abkhasian .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0053 -1.098 104677
    4 Georgian .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0057 -1.182 104677
    5 Armenian .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0086 -1.835 104677
    6 Turkish .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0088 -1.766 104677
    7 Azeri .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0107 -1.913 61040
    8 Iraqi_Jew .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0132 -2.803 104677
    9 Iranian_Jew .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0136 -2.908 104677
    10 Iranian .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0142 -2.958 104677
    11 Tajik_Afghan .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0156 -3.103 99064
    12 Druze .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0161 -3.48 104677
    13 Syrian .Kurd_C2 .Melif Gorilla -0.0357 -7.451 104677

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