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Thread: Pashtun deep ancestry results using Dstats

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    This is absolutely NOT my claim. I did not come up with this. It is what the evidence shows (dstats). Please address the evidence instead of stating the same thing over and over again.



    You keep bringing this up again and again, when I have not said that Pashtuns have moved into their present areas recently, or within the last 1000 years. This point is getting old. Please stop.

    You keep avoiding the dstat evidence that Pashtuns share the most TOTAL genetic drift with Kurds, Balochis, Georgians, Chechens, and NE Europeans, and not with Pamiri Tajiks, Afghan Tajiks, Punjabi, and other S Asians.

    Why not address this for change instead of bringing up stuff over and over that I have never said. Do you think that formal methods such as dstats that all the major papers base the lion's share of their analysis on (and not ADMIXTURE) are wrong and unreliable?
    Please explain me how it wrong that Pashtuns derive from South Central Asia/ Afghanistan? You are exaggerating the similarities between Pashtuns and Kurds . Yes they exist and Pashtuns and Kurds have often similar phenotypes but genetically or linguistically there is hardly any evidence that Pashtuns derive directly from some Proto-Kurds or splitt of from Proto-Kurds after they splitt off from other Iranics.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Please explain me how it wrong that Pashtuns derive from South Central Asia/ Afghanistan?
    The evidence shows that Pashtuns are majority a combination of CHG derivied (Caucausus) and steppe Andronovo related. Androovo itself were Caucauses area and Russian steppe derived, so that makes Pashtuns majoirity Caucausus and Russian steppe derived (just like Georgians, Kurds, Chechens, etc)

    You are exaggerating the similarities between Pashtuns and Kurds
    How am I exaggerating the similarities when the dstat results I posted showed the Pashtun samples shared the most drift with Kurd C2 and C3 http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...s-using-Dstats
    Yes they exist and Pashtuns and Kurds have often similar phenotypes but genetically or linguistically there is hardly any evidence that Pashtuns derive directly from some Proto-Kurds or splitt of from Proto-Kurds after they splitt off from other Iranics.
    So then how do we explain that Kurd C2 and C3 share more TOTAL drift with Pashtuns than the Iranian samples in the comparison, AND that Sorani Kurdi sounds more like Pashto, has letters such as zh, dz, tz, etc (missing in Farsi), and has more words in common, shares pronouns such as la, pa, etc with Pashto (especially Kandahri/Quetta dialect) than other Caucausus languages and Farsi. My Pashtun speaking friends and myself can hear the similarity, and if you are familiar with Pashto and Sorani Kurdi, you will also. Go ahead and listen to Sorani Kurdi such as the link below, and listen to Farsi, and compare.

    Sein, who is a Pashto speaker also heard the similarity, see
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...2845#post92845

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    Red scarf/shaal/dopatta/bochan/chunni was also tradtionally worn by Kurd brides

    I think pashtuns wear different bridal clothes based on the region and social class they're from. In Afghanistan, they do not wear red dresses. Most Afghans wear a green dress and then a white dress.
    "Humanity is all one body;
    To torture another is simply to wound yourself." - Rahman Baba

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifluous View Post
    I think pashtuns wear different bridal clothes based on the region and social class they're from. In Afghanistan, they do not wear red dresses. Most Afghans wear a green dress and then a white dress.
    At first, it reminded me of a Hindu wedding. In Kandahar we have red dresses but nothing like that from the video, it’s our Kuchai dress made with red velvet or silk. That bride's dress in the video reminds me of an old Azeri wedding dress.




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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    The similarity in how Sorani sounds to Kandhari/Quetta Pashto is very interesting. They also use zh, dz, tz, etc. Here is a clip from the Pastho drama "Sur Shaal" (Red Shawl" would be the best translation). Interestingly, the drama is edited by Hashim Kurd (many Kurds in Balochistan use the last name Kurd)

    All the weddings that I have been to when I was a kid (a long time ago) in Pakistan, whether Pashtun, Balochi, Kurdi, or Punjabi, I remember the bride wearing red. I guess nowadays all colors are seen

    I also remember a peculiar custom at Kurdi weddings again long ago, don't remember it at other weddings, a peculiar custom where the bride would kick over a cup of rice when at the threshold of her new home when she entered (in-laws)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    All the weddings that I have been to when I was a kid (a long time ago) in Pakistan, whether Pashtun, Balochi, Kurdi, or Punjabi, I remember the bride wearing red. I guess nowadays all colors are seen
    Wrora, most definitely Pakistani culture and assimilation, their dresses are pretty, I love them personally.



    I also remember a peculiar custom at Kurdi weddings again long ago, don't remember it at other weddings, a peculiar custom where the bride would kick over a cup of rice when at the threshold of her new home when she entered (in-laws):)
    That is also a hindu wedding tradition, called Griha pravesh (home entry) WOW!

    Last edited by surbakhunWeesste; 05-08-2016 at 06:54 PM.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Inexplicably, I remember some member writing that regarding my father's admixture and how he "must" have had recent Iranian input because of low the South Indian, sarcastic as it may sound, its common for most if not all Southern Pashtun tribes from what I have seen. Also, based on the Y-Dna and mtdna of Afghan Pashtuns, West Asian haplo-groups are very low.
    There is a plodding decline of West Asian type admixture from Southern Afghanistan to eastern (some) Afghanistan to Western Pakistan etc. Its rather just a function of geography. Eastern and Southern Iranians are closer to Afghan Pashtuns and have higher south central Asian admixture despite not having any Afghan or Pashtun matches on 23andme and gedmatch.
    Agreed. I've speculated with jesus recently that the presence of SW Asian-related admixture in the southern portions of Afghanistan is due to pre-Indo-Iranian demic diffusion between the western throngs of the Iranian plateau and South-Central Asia. There's plenty of archaeological evidence indicating trade between Elam, the BMAC and the IVC. Unsubstantiated assertions of post-Achaemanid Iranian admixture in Kandahari Pashtuns aren't the only possibilities here.

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurd View Post
    The evidence shows that Pashtuns are majority a combination of CHG derivied (Caucausus) and steppe Andronovo related. Androovo itself were Caucauses area and Russian steppe derived, so that makes Pashtuns majoirity Caucausus and Russian steppe derived (just like Georgians, Kurds, Chechens, etc)



    How am I exaggerating the similarities when the dstat results I posted showed the Pashtun samples shared the most drift with Kurd C2 and C3 http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...s-using-Dstats


    So then how do we explain that Kurd C2 and C3 share more TOTAL drift with Pashtuns than the Iranian samples in the comparison, AND that Sorani Kurdi sounds more like Pashto, has letters such as zh, dz, tz, etc (missing in Farsi), and has more words in common, shares pronouns such as la, pa, etc with Pashto (especially Kandahri/Quetta dialect) than other Caucausus languages and Farsi. My Pashtun speaking friends and myself can hear the similarity, and if you are familiar with Pashto and Sorani Kurdi, you will also. Go ahead and listen to Sorani Kurdi such as the link below, and listen to Farsi, and compare.

    Sein, who is a Pashto speaker also heard the similarity, see
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...2845#post92845
    I am talking about where Pashtun ethnicity and language evolved and this was definitely not the Caucasus. CHG has maybe origins in the Caucasus but CHG existed in Afghanistan long before Pashtuns. Anyways CHG is high everywhere in South Central Asia and isolated folks like Kalash or Burusho have maybe even more of it so I don't see how Pashtuns are special here compared to other South Central Asians. Pashtuns and Kurds have definitely similarities because they are Iranics, muslims and tribal people but most of the similarities you named here are either superficial or have a third indirect source. It is possible that Pashtuns are culturally closer to Kurds than to Persians but I doubt very much that Pashtuns are closer related to Kurds than to Tajiks or other South Central Asians. Pashtun Y-DNA for example is totally different from Kurds and any other West Asians. It is closest to that of Pamiri/Tajiks, Dardics and NW South Asians and for such tribal and patriarchal people like Pashtuns this is very telling about their origins.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-08-2016 at 08:13 PM.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Agreed. I've speculated with jesus recently that the presence of SW Asian-related admixture in the southern portions of Afghanistan is due to pre-Indo-Iranian demic diffusion between the western throngs of the Iranian plateau and South-Central Asia. There's plenty of archaeological evidence indicating trade between Elam, the BMAC and the IVC. Unsubstantiated assertions of post-Achaemanid Iranian admixture in Kandahari Pashtuns aren't the only possibilities here.
    Very good point and i would add that the same is to some extent maybe also true the SW Asian/higher West Asian admixture among Baluch and Brahui. Baluch are linguistically West Iranics but I think most of their ancestry is local. For example much if not most of their R1a-Z93 is L657 rare in West Asia and common in South Asia and South Central Asia. I think there is some post-achaeminid West Asian admixture in many areas of South Central Asia but many tend to exaggerate it
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-08-2016 at 08:23 PM.

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    [ADMIN] Hi all, I've split the discussion regarding Zoroastrianism to this thread (no post alterations).

    Let's try and keep this thread focused on Kurd's stated scope. Thanks!

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