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Thread: Pashtun deep ancestry results using Dstats

  1. #151
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    1/2 Pashtun 1/2 Pamiri

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I was just addressing your statement (not comparing Pashtuns to anyone) that no one in Afghanistan ever spoke Dravidian languages. The Brahui have and still do. I believe the Nuristani have some relation to the Kalash who speak a Dardic (Indo-Aryan) language. Although, the Nuristani/Kafir language is under its own separate Indo-Iranian branch and is unique/distinct to both Indo-Aryan and Iranic languages sub-branch.

    As for Coldmountain's statement on whether Eastern Afghans were Pashtunified or not or the rest of your points, I can't comment. Not my area of expertise. Coldmountains is much more knowledgeable on that.
    Just because Coldmountains says something doesn't mean he's right. Im not discrediting the guy, he seems very smart. But that doesn't mean everything he says is going to be 100% correct. I am also very knowledged on the history of Afghanistan and the surrounding area, and it is very factually incorrect to say that eastern afghans are pashtunized, they aren't. Some of the most notable and original tribes are from Eastern Afghanistan, so if Eastern Afghans are pashtunized, then everyone is pashtunized lol. He is going off of basic things such as river and town names, and not the full picture. He is also forgetting that Sanskrit has a massive amount of Iranic loan words and IS an Indo-Iranian language. There were also never an abundance of Indo-Aryans in Eastern afghanistan prior to pre-Islamic times. Eastern Afghans have been Afghan or Pashtun pretty much since there has ever been an Afghan identity. If anything, people of Eastern Afghanistan were probably akin to Nuristanis in culture in the past, and Nuristanis are considered Eastern Iranians by many Afghans, they share more with all Pashtuns in Afghanistan than they do with any indic, including kashmiris. Eastern Afghans were never indic, they have never spoke any dravidian languages, which are the original languages of Indians prior to indo-iranians, and using Dardics to claim them as indics is a big slap in the face because Dardic is a sub-branch of indo-Iranian and so are indo-aryan languages. Eastern Afghans aren't pashtunized or iranified, indics became iranified because it was aryan tribes from Afghanistan who went into india that introduced them to indo-aryan languages, he has it backwards. Eastern Afghans were always iranics.


    I have seen the admixture calculator results of some eastern afghans, but they of course do not represent all or most eastern afghans. We don't have samples of DNA from Kunar, Paktia, etc. Even Nuristani people include many people who are actually pashtuns, etc, and some are probably like Pamiri Tajiks. I have seen one eastern afghan admixture oracle that was close to Pamiri Tajiks beside Afghan Pashtuns. Besides, every Afghan Pashtun DNA test I have seen was always closest to Afghan Pashtuns. Being close to Kashmiri people doesn't make one indian/indic/veddic. Kashmiris themselves are borderline west asian/Iranic in many ways. Even lookwise, eastern afghans look 100x closer to pashtuns, tajiks, and Pamiri Tajiks in any other part of Afghanistan than to anyone in India (even though it is hard to say there is a pashtun look sometimes).

    And what do Brahuis have to do with Eastern Afghans? They have always been a minority in Afghanistan.

    I just don't understand his anecdote and why he continously pushes the "fact" that eastern afghans are "pashtunized" pashtuns in multiple post in here when that's far from the truth, and looking through the forums last night, it looks like it has upset other eastern afghan members who used to post here and got banned just for contesting that statement. Afghan Pashtuns are proud of their heritage, and to call some "pashtunized" is just far ignorant, especially when basing it off of town names (which come from a languge that has many iranian loanwords and is an indo-iranian language) and some shared cultural elements. This sub section is about pashtuns, let pashtuns enjoy it and learn more about their pashtun heritage and their PASHTUN culture. Half of this Pashtun section is full of South Asians claiming that eastern afghans used to be indians and that Hindi and pashto are very similar and making some pashtuns feel less pashtun/Iranic other ones. And now, people are comparing them to Kurds. I don't understand why Coldmountains keeps spreading that eastern afghans are pashtunized because that is offensive and untrue, historically and factually incorrect, and just straight up ignorant.

    Indians are related to Afghans too, no doubt. And the picture Afghan history cannot be painted without Indians, but Afghans and Indians/indics have always been a separate group of people, including eastern afghans.
    Last edited by Heteorchromia; 09-23-2016 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heteorchromia View Post
    Just because Coldmountains says something doesn't mean he's right. Im not discrediting the guy, he seems very smart. But that doesn't mean everything he says is going to be 100% correct. I am also very knowledged on the history of Afghanistan and the surrounding area, and it is very factually incorrect to say that eastern afghans are pashtunized, they aren't. Some of the most notable and original tribes are from Eastern Afghanistan, so if Eastern Afghans are pashtunized, then everyone is pashtunized lol. He is going off of basic things such as river and town names, and not the full picture. He is also forgetting that Sanskrit has a massive amount of Iranic loan words and IS an Indo-Iranian language. There were also never an abundance of Indo-Aryans in Eastern afghanistan prior to pre-Islamic times. Eastern Afghans have been Afghan or Pashtun pretty much since there has ever been an Afghan identity. If anything, people of Eastern Afghanistan were probably akin to Nuristanis in culture in the past, and Nuristanis are considered Eastern Iranians by many Afghans, they share more with all Pashtuns in Afghanistan than they do with any indic, including kashmiris. Eastern Afghans were never indic, they have never spoke any dravidian languages, which are the original languages of Indians prior to indo-iranians, and using Dardics to claim them as indics is a big slap in the face because Dardic is a sub-branch of indo-Iranian and so are indo-aryan languages. Eastern Afghans aren't pashtunized or iranified, indics became iranified because it was aryan tribes from Afghanistan who went into india that introduced them to indo-aryan languages, he has it backwards. Eastern Afghans were always iranics.


    I have seen the admixture calculator results of some eastern afghans, but they of course do not represent all or most eastern afghans. We don't have samples of DNA from Kunar, Paktia, etc. Even Nuristani people include many people who are actually pashtuns, etc, and some are probably like Pamiri Tajiks. I have seen one eastern afghan admixture oracle that was close to Pamiri Tajiks beside Afghan Pashtuns. Besides, every Afghan Pashtun DNA test I have seen was always closest to Afghan Pashtuns. Being close to Kashmiri people doesn't make one indian/indic/veddic. Kashmiris themselves are borderline west asian/Iranic in many ways. Even lookwise, eastern afghans look 100x closer to pashtuns, tajiks, and Pamiri Tajiks in any other part of Afghanistan than to anyone in India (even though it is hard to say there is a pashtun look sometimes).

    And what do Brahuis have to do with Eastern Afghans? They have always been a minority in Afghanistan.

    I just don't understand his anecdote and why he continously pushes the "fact" that eastern afghans are "pashtunized" pashtuns in multiple post in here when that's far from the truth, and looking through the forums last night, it looks like it has upset other eastern afghan members who used to post here and got banned just for contesting that statement. Afghan Pashtuns are proud of their heritage, and to call some "pashtunized" is just far ignorant, especially when basing it off of town names (which come from a languge that has many iranian loanwords and is an indo-iranian language) and some shared cultural elements. This sub section is about pashtuns, let pashtuns enjoy it and learn more about their pashtun heritage and their PASHTUN culture. Half of this Pashtun section is full of South Asians claiming that eastern afghans used to be indians and that Hindi and pashto are very similar and making some pashtuns feel less pashtun/Iranic other ones. And now, people are comparing them to Kurds. I don't understand why Coldmountains keeps spreading that eastern afghans are pashtunized because that is offensive and untrue, historically and factually incorrect, and just straight up ignorant.

    Indians are related to Afghans too, no doubt. And the picture Afghan history cannot be painted without Indians, but Afghans and Indians/indics have always been a separate group of people, including eastern afghans.
    You should give up this idealized and nationalist view of Afghan history and ethnogenesis. Pashtun mixed and are not "pure". Yes they are strictly patriarchal and tribal people but tribal structures and identities were in the past much more fluid than we assume today else all Pashtuns would look the same and would have the same dna. Even today Pashtunization is occuring in eastern Afghanistan among Nuristani, Pashai and other Dardics. The same happened in the past. Nowhere i said that eastern Afghanistan and Gandhara were 100% Indo-Aryan in pre-islamic times. Indo-Aryans were for the most time the majority there but Iranics settled in these regions already in the Bronze Age but became the majority much later. Pashtuns have some genetic variation and Pashtuns in the north (Peshawar, Kabul, Kunar,..) are more indic shifted than southern Pashtuns (Kandahar, Quetta, Helmand,..). Generally most of Pashtun tribes and subpopulations share most of their Y-DNA so there is a connection between most Pashtun populations. Also i did not say that eastern Pashtuns have no proto-pashtun ancestry please read what i wrote. My point was that Pashtuns in these region got their Indic genetic shift compared to other Iranics not from recent mixing with people from India but from the assimilation of local and ancient Indo-Aryan/Dardic and pre-Indo-European populations, which were richer in ASI and other south asian genetic elements. Nobody is here claiming that Pashtuns are Indians please show me one post of mine, pegasus or other forum members where we are saying that Pashtuns are Indians. Sorry but what you write about pre-islamic eastern Afghanistan is just nationalist propaganda and hogwash . Eastern Afghanistan was full of Indo-Aryan temples,architecture, manuscripts, artifacts and people that does not mean that Iranics did not live there . For the most time the rulers were still Iranics (Kushan, Saka,..) but they quickly became Indo-Aryanized. The urban areas were very much influenced by "Indian" Indo-Aryan civilization but among rural populations ,which were Dardic, Nuristani, non-Indo-European and Iranic, tribal and more archaic cultures were prevalent
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 09-24-2016 at 07:50 AM.

  3. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-15-2017), ashwinb (09-29-2016), jatt2016 (09-24-2016), MonkeyDLuffy (09-24-2016), pegasus (09-24-2016), Sapporo (09-24-2016), topfield (09-24-2016)

  4. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by David Powell View Post
    Pakheyr.
    When you say paternal lineage I assume you mean that of through which your Y-DNA passed to you. Usually a Single Tandem Repeat test is taken for 37 (or greater) locii on your Y chromosome. From those repeat values, a prediction of your haplogroup is sometimes possible, that can be subsequently verified by testing for specific single nucleotide polymorphisms on your Y chromosome.
    It is from STR based tests that recent matches can be found. The more locii that are tested the more accurate the test can be at determining how many generations there are between you, your match, and your mutual most recent common ancestor.
    Your initial haplogroup, is an ancient one, but can be refined by additional testing.
    Note, my answer is general, and may not apply specifically to you or your ethnic group.
    dp :-)
    Tashakor for the information bro!

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