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Thread: Early Medieval aDNA from Poland coming soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Ahh, thanks. Back to Polish school for me.
    I just used Google translate, but I got the impression that she was saying that they had just used mtDNA so far. (My comment: that would be useless in this context.) Then she says they are now moving on to full genome and Y-DNA. Yes?
    Last edited by Jean M; 09-13-2017 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    I just used Google translate, but I got the impression that she was saying that they had just used mtDNA so far. (My comment: that would be useless in this context.) Then she says they are now moving on to full genome and Y-DNA. Yes?
    That was my impression from the opening lines (have not read the full piece, just the items provided by Waldemar). I don't really know if she will be analyzing ALL the available evidence or just focusing on the Piast period. Not sure if the "autochthonic hope" (so to speak) is her own or that of the reporting journalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post
    Newsweek: "Rozumiem, że badania genetyczne nie potwierdziły teorii allochtonicznych?"

    Dr Anna Juras: "Dotychczas nie, ale sprawa jest otwarta, ponieważ nasze badania jeszcze się nie zakończyły. Ale dzisiaj wygląda na to, że w badanym przez nas okresie historycznym żadnych dużych migracji ludności na naszych terenach nie było, a Słowianie byli już zasiedziałą na swoich włościach społecznością."

    Newsweek: "A czy zdarza się, że badania genetyczne potwierdzają to, co wcześniej odkrywają archeolodzy?"

    Dr Anna Juras: "Bardzo często."

    Dr Anna Juras: "Jednak wśród archeologów nadal toczą się spory, szczególnie na blogach internetowych poświęconych zagadnieniom pochodzenia Słowian. Zwolennicy zarówno teorii allochtonicznej, jak i autochtonicznej prowadzą emocjonującą polemikę od długiego czasu."

    Dr Anna Juras: "Oczywiście, to, co zrobiliśmy do tej pory, jest jedynie częścią naszego planu. Tym bardziej że dzisiaj możemy wykorzystać jeszcze więcej nowych technologii, które np. umożliwiają badanie chromosomu Y, co pozwoli dowiedzieć się o wiele więcej o męskich liniach genetycznych."

    Dr Anna Juras: "Pierwszym etapem jest płytkie sekwencjonowanie nowej generacji, tzw. screening, dzięki któremu jesteśmy w stanie sprawdzić, ile tak naprawdę jest w kości ludzkiego DNA i jak czystą próbę udało nam się uzyskać."

    Dr Anna Juras: "Czasami możemy dodatkowo DNA wzbogacić, co oznacza, najprościej mówiąc, że wpuszczamy tam wtedy swoiste wędki z przynętami w postaci RNA, do których przyklejają się tylko wybrane fragmenty DNA. W ten sposób je odławiamy, potem namnażamy i sekwencjonujemy, by dalej przyjrzeć się ich charakterystycznym cechom."
    I used google to translate it:

    Newsweek: "I understand that genetic testing has not confirmed allochthonous theories?"
    Dr. Anna Juras: "No, but the case is open because our research is not over yet. But today it looks like we did not have any major population migration in our area during the historical period we surveyed, and the Slavs were already incommunicado. their own community. "

    Newsweek: "And does genetic research prove that what archaeologists once discover?"

    Dr. Anna Juras: "Very often."

    Dr Anna Juras: "There are still disputes among archaeologists, especially on weblogs devoted to Slavic issues, and proponents of both the allochthonian and indigenous theories have been engrossing in polemics for a long time."

    Dr. Anna Juras: "Obviously, what we have done so far is only part of our plan, especially since today we can use even more new technologies that, for example, allow us to study the Y chromosome so that we can learn a lot more about the male lines. genetic. "

    Dr. Anna Juras: "The first step is the shallow sequencing of the next generation, the so-called screening, by which we are able to see how much it really is in the bones of human DNA and how purely we have managed to get."

    Dr. Anna Juras: "Sometimes we can enrich DNA, which is, to put it simply, that we put in there specific rods with RNA baits, which only stick to certain DNA fragments. Continue to look at their characteristic features. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Then she says they are now moving on to full genome and Y-DNA. Yes?
    Yes, that's correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I don't really know if she will be analyzing ALL the available evidence or just focusing on the Piast period.
    They will certainly analyze all that data. She is a member of a team that investigates both the Iron Age (Roman Times) and Piast period samples.

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Not sure if the "autochthonic hope" (so to speak) is her own or that of the reporting journalist.
    It is her own view that what we currently know suggests that there were no major migrations in Poland in the relevant time period, and that the Slavs were living here since long time ago.

    It is not clear whether her statement is based solely on her previous mtDNA study or whether she claims that the preliminary Y-DNA and autosomal results are also consistent with her autochtonic views. She has not mentioned any Y-DNA results, even though the preliminary Y-DNA results that were presented in Dubrovnik in June were clearly supporting the allochtonic theory. Based on this interview and on an earlier talk that Figlerowicz had in June (in Chorzów), it seems obvious that they agreed to not reveal any autosomal and Y-DNA data before the paper comes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    It is not clear whether her statement is based solely on her previous mtDNA study or whether she claims that the preliminary Y-DNA and autosomal results are also consistent with her autochtonic views. She has not mentioned any Y-DNA results, even though the preliminary Y-DNA results that were presented in Dubrovnik in June were clearly supporting the allochtonic theory. Based on this interview and on an earlier talk that Figlerowicz had in June (in Chorzów), it seems obvious that they agreed to not reveal any autosomal and Y-DNA data before the paper comes out.


    But today it looks like we did not have any major population migration in our area during the historical period we surveyed, and the Slavs were already incommunicado their own community
    Perhaps it is not worth debating... but why would she make a statement like that unless she had some solid proof? I'd imagine she would need to have some good information to make that claim, and I'd also imagine she's aware of the work Figlerowicz has released so far.

    As a side note... I heard a while back that there are rumors that the Iron Age cultures inhabiting Poland are turning out to be polyethnic. Maybe there are pockets of 'Slavs' found among them?

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  11. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    Perhaps it is not worth debating... but why would she make a statement like that unless she had some solid proof?
    Today, if we believe existing publications i.e. her own useless paper on mtDNA, it does not look as like a wave of Slavs arriving. That is because said wave will only be apparent from ancient Y-DNA and full genomes, not yet published.

    As a side note... I heard a while back that there are rumors that the Iron Age cultures inhabiting Poland are turning out to be polyethnic. Maybe there are pockets of 'Slavs' found among them?
    It has been pretty clear for some time that the territory now Poland was inhabited in the Iron Age by Balts, Germani and Celts in different regions. No Slavs. No Slavic place-names that old. No Slavic material culture that old within that territory. No Slavic tribes there noted by Classical writers.

    Linguistically, archaeologically and genetically it is clear that the Slavs expanded from a relatively small homeland after the Western Roman Empire collapsed. See Ralph and Coop 2012 for the evidence from IBD. http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    The homeland of the Slavs was not far away from from present-day Poland - in Belarus and Ukraine. And given the fact that the borders of Poland have changed so much over the centuries, I daresay some part of the homeland was actually within Poland at one time. But not now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    Perhaps it is not worth debating... but why would she make a statement like that unless she had some solid proof? I'd imagine she would need to have some good information to make that claim, and I'd also imagine she's aware of the work Figlerowicz has released so far.
    She was actually a co-author for that only piece of data that was published so far by the Figlerowicz's team (which was an abstract for the conference presentation), so she must have been aware that those data clearly suggest that some population replacement has taken place since the Roman times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    As a side note... I heard a while back that there are rumors that the Iron Age cultures inhabiting Poland are turning out to be polyethnic. Maybe there are pockets of 'Slavs' found among them?
    Personally, I doubt it. Please note that if this was the case one could not say that "no major migrations are supported" by such data (unless one assumes that all those non-Slavs were most likely exterminated by their Slav neighbors).

    The most likely explanation is that she cannot reveal any data that are currently being prepared for publication, so she presents the "current state of knowledge" as if no such new data existed, while at the same time stating that "the question is still open until the study is completed".
    Last edited by Michał; 09-14-2017 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Today, if we believe existing publications i.e. her own useless paper on mtDNA, it does not look as like a wave of Slavs arriving. That is because said wave will only be apparent from ancient Y-DNA and full genomes, not yet published.



    It has been pretty clear for some time that the territory now Poland was inhabited in the Iron Age by Balts, Germani and Celts in different regions. No Slavs. No Slavic place-names that old. No Slavic material culture that old within that territory. No Slavic tribes there noted by Classical writers.

    Linguistically, archaeologically and genetically it is clear that the Slavs expanded from a relatively small homeland after the Western Roman Empire collapsed. See Ralph and Coop 2012 for the evidence from IBD. http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    The homeland of the Slavs was not far away from from present-day Poland - in Belarus and Ukraine. And given the fact that the borders of Poland have changed so much over the centuries, I daresay some part of the homeland was actually within Poland at one time. But not now.
    No this is hardly true. The Slavic homeland will be extensive cause there is no official borders considering we are steppe-invaders we claimed the land with invasion so is hard to say where is exact borders of Slavic homeland. Certainly Ukraine and Belarus are regions where Slavs were in control but this is not the only places we roamed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealth View Post
    No this is hardly true. The Slavic homeland will be extensive cause there is no official borders considering we are steppe-invaders we claimed the land with invasion so is hard to say where is exact borders of Slavic homeland. Certainly Ukraine and Belarus are regions where Slavs were in control but this is not the only places we roamed.
    Do you mean those ancient Slavs arose independently in many different places (including Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, and maybe even in the Balkans) instead of originating from a smaller ancestral population? If so, how did they learn to speak a common language (and where was that language first spoken) and why do they all share a relatively recent common genetic ancestry (seen in both Y-DNA and autosomes)?
    Last edited by Michał; 09-14-2017 at 07:17 PM.

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  18. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    Do you mean those ancient Slavs arose independently in many different places (including Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, and maybe even in the Balkans) instead of originating from a smaller ancestral population? If so, how did they learn to speak a common language (and where was that language first spoken) and why do they all share a relatively recent common genetic ancestry (seen in both Y-DNA and autosomes)?
    Slavs had to arise from a smaller ancestral population that would explain why we are similarly related and our genes are found in many regions of East Europe not only Belarus and Ukraine.

    There was not always 7 billion people, all regional groups of people has less population in the past at some point this is currently most people living in world now.

    Our languages (Slavic) have loanwords and as native Polish speaker is intelligible for me other Slavic languages to certain degree maybe half but other half I can just figure out by having high IQ.

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