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Thread: Early Medieval aDNA from Poland coming soon

  1. #1561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post


    The autosomal diversity of early medieval Slavs places them in a very large cluster between today's Lithuanians and Hungarians, but some Germanic influences may also be seen (eg. pos162, RISE569). mtDNA lineages in the early Slavs also seem to be extremely diverse.

    For some it may be surprising that early Slavs have no visible Asian influence (Iranian, Turkic, etc.).
    Last edited by Waldemar; 11-13-2017 at 03:05 PM.

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  3. #1562
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    Archaeobotanical data relating to the Prague-type culture from territories ranging from the Dnieper valley to that of the Dniester are introduced. Four sites were investigated by the author (Velikaya Bugayevka, Kodyn I, Kodyn II, Luka-Kavetchinskaya); materials from the sites Rashkov III and Teterevka I analysed by G.A.Pashkevich were also used for the investigation. Materials from Velikaya Bugayevka are only of interest for evaluation of the world-view of medieval Slavs and they are not used for statistical analysis. For the latter materials have been used from four sites. The bases of vessels with imprints of millet are also not used for statistical analysis, because grains of millet did not find their way into pottery vessels by chance. Analysis of grain production is carried out after recalculation of data relating to indices of mass: in first place is barley; then there follow rye and naked wheat varieties; the least stable indices are those for emmer wheat; the index for millet is between 1/10 and 1/6; the indices for oats are stable at alow level. Cluster analysis showed that there is afairly high level of similarity with between the sites (ca. 90 %). The presence of weeds can testify to the use of old-arable fields and the presence of plants with different cycles would point to the use of both spring and winter sewing.

    (...)

    Palaeoethnobotanical study of the materials from the Prague-type culture sites do not leave any doubt that among the Slavs in the third quarter of the 1st millennium AD the farming was widespread and occupied an important place both in the economy and in the worldview.
    https://www.academia.edu/35122432/Go...re_in_Ukraine_

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  5. #1563
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    Obtained genomic results indicate mixed origin and diverse genetic affiliation of ancient individuals to present-day populations.
    How would you explain high genetic diversity of the early medieval Slavs?

    Genetic affiliation of ancient individuals to present-day populations:
    pos145 (11th c. AD) - Czechia + Scandinavia?
    pos146 (11th c. AD) - Ukraine
    pos148 (11th c. AD) - Ukraine + Baltic?
    pos162 (11th c. AD) - Lithuania + British Isles?
    RISE569 (660-770 AD) - Lithuania + British Isles?
    RISE568 (600-900 AD) - western Russia
    Niemcza18 (medieval Poland) - western Russia
    Markowice7 (medieval Poland) - Lithuania
    Sunghir6 (1040-1220 AD) - Ukraine
    Last edited by Waldemar; 11-14-2017 at 09:29 AM.

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  7. #1564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post
    How would you explain high genetic diversity of the early medieval Slavs?

    Genetic affiliation of ancient individuals to present-day populations:
    pos145 (11th c. AD) - Czechia + Scandinavia?
    pos146 (11th c. AD) - Ukraine
    pos148 (11th c. AD) - Ukraine + Baltic?
    pos162 (11th c. AD) - Lithuania + British Isles?
    RISE569 (660-770 AD) - Lithuania + British Isles?
    RISE568 (600-900 AD) - western Russia
    Niemcza18 (medieval Poland) - western Russia
    Markowice7 (medieval Poland) - Lithuania
    Sunghir6 (1040-1220 AD) - Ukraine
    Autochtonic introgression. They couldn't be such diverse since the hypothetical Balto-Slavic separation (if we assume Proto-Slavs were Markowice7-like or Rise598-like).

    Or second possibility this separation was caused by admixture of south Balto-Slavic with very diverse geneticaly population (Kyatice-like? Lusatian-like? Michał's Bastarnae?). Since then newly created Proto-Slavs were diverse. And every of above genomes could be proto-Slavic.

    Any other ideas?
    Last edited by lukaszM; 11-14-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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  9. #1565
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    I think that we should take into account the fact that it is 11th century and the pockets of substrate population might still existed in the area. Over time these kind differences get smaller. The PCA is not very clear, but it seems that pos146 plots near the present day Croatians and Hungarians. However, that should not be a surprise because historical sources indicate the areas of Poland and Bohemia as a source of Croatian migration to Panonia and Dalmatia.

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  11. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Actually these two have completely different spreads in Europe, most likely representing distinct histories, (yet to be determined) but by 900-1000 could be found as contemporaries in the same population. The latter seems to be a Ashkenazi subgroup by looking at members.
    Where do you check members?

  12. #1567
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    R1b1a2-L150.1 has slavic subgroups (like Y31335).
    This is not a Slavic branch

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  14. #1568
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    And every of above genomes could be proto-Slavic.
    But you'd agree that early medieval Slavs still cluster quite closely with today's Slavs/Balts thus narrowing down the search of possible Bronze Age/Iron Age ancestors of the Slavs. Finding ancient populations resembling those early Slavs (e.g. falling into early Slavic cluster on PCA) will eventually point us to their homeland.
    Last edited by Waldemar; 11-15-2017 at 09:49 AM.

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  16. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post
    But you'd agree that early medieval Slavs still cluster quite closely with today's Slavs/Balts thus narrowing down the search of possible Bronze Age/Iron Age ancestors of the Slavs. Finding ancient populations resembling those early Slavs (e.g. falling into early Slavic cluster on PCA) will eventually point us to their homeland.
    Those southern aformentioned BaltoSlavs could live in Belarus, Ukiraine but also NE Poland. Why not?
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  18. #1570
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    R-YP263 and its branches consists of men whose ancestry is traced to Poland, Germany, Sweden, Finland and Norway. It's one of the major clades for R-L1029. For me, this is indicative of some sort of origin and/or migration along the Balto-Slavic borderland at one time. You know this Waldemar, as you are one of those men within this category.

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