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Thread: Khorasan

  1. #1
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    Khorasan

    Is there any ydna or autosomal data available from this province? Please share

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  3. #2
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    There is a y-dna distribution of Persians from Khorasan in the Grugni et al. 2012 paper.

    22% R1a
    17% J2
    13.6% G2a (11.9% G2a + 1.7% G1)
    6.8% R1b
    6.8% J1
    6.8% Q (5.1% Q1b1 + 1.7% Q1)
    5.1% T
    3.4% L1a2 (old L1c)
    3.4% E1b1b1a1a
    3.4% R2
    3.4% H1a
    3.4% R*
    3.4% O
    1.7% R1*

    N=59
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9ItFg3ZDOC...41252.t001.jpg

    Persians are the dominant people of Khorasan region for hundreds of years. Therefore this distribution can give some idea to you about y-dna of this region.
    Last edited by Caspian; 02-15-2016 at 06:59 PM.
    Y-dna: L1b*-M317 (Pontic Cluster, PH8+) Anatolian or Caucasian lineage
    (Turkish, Greek, Armenian, Hemshin, Laz, Megrelian, Georgian, Chechen, Kabardin, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Iraqi matches)


    Y-dna of maternal grandfather: R1b1a2a2-Z2103 (L584+) Steppe/Yamnaya PIE (Armenian, Hittite-Luwian, Cimmerian, Scythian, Mitanni or Median) or Turkificated lineage in the Central Asia?

    Mtdna: U7a3 Indo-Iranic East Iranian or Turkic Steppe?

    Autosomal Summary
     
    3/4 West Asian
    1/4 Central Asian

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  5. #3
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    There is another y-dna distribution about Persians from Khorasan (Eastern Iran)



    R1a, J2, G2a and L seems the most common y-dna haplogroups of Khorasan region in this paper.
    Last edited by Caspian; 02-15-2016 at 07:25 PM.
    Y-dna: L1b*-M317 (Pontic Cluster, PH8+) Anatolian or Caucasian lineage
    (Turkish, Greek, Armenian, Hemshin, Laz, Megrelian, Georgian, Chechen, Kabardin, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Iraqi matches)


    Y-dna of maternal grandfather: R1b1a2a2-Z2103 (L584+) Steppe/Yamnaya PIE (Armenian, Hittite-Luwian, Cimmerian, Scythian, Mitanni or Median) or Turkificated lineage in the Central Asia?

    Mtdna: U7a3 Indo-Iranic East Iranian or Turkic Steppe?

    Autosomal Summary
     
    3/4 West Asian
    1/4 Central Asian

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  7. #4
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    R1a is common y-dna haplogroup among Eastern Persians while R1b is common among Western Persians. R1b conquared mostly Western Iran while R1a conquared mostly Eastern Iran if both of them were Proto Indo-Iranians.
    Last edited by Caspian; 02-15-2016 at 07:34 PM.
    Y-dna: L1b*-M317 (Pontic Cluster, PH8+) Anatolian or Caucasian lineage
    (Turkish, Greek, Armenian, Hemshin, Laz, Megrelian, Georgian, Chechen, Kabardin, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Iraqi matches)


    Y-dna of maternal grandfather: R1b1a2a2-Z2103 (L584+) Steppe/Yamnaya PIE (Armenian, Hittite-Luwian, Cimmerian, Scythian, Mitanni or Median) or Turkificated lineage in the Central Asia?

    Mtdna: U7a3 Indo-Iranic East Iranian or Turkic Steppe?

    Autosomal Summary
     
    3/4 West Asian
    1/4 Central Asian

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    There is another y-dna distribution about Persians from Khorasan (Eastern Iran)



    R1a, J2, G2a and L seems the most common y-dna haplogroups of Khorasan region in this paper.
    The Kurd sample here is clearly not representative of Kurds, as it is showing 0% R1a for Kurds.

    Kurds have one of the highest R1a percentages for groups in Iran.

    The 1st reference you cited (Grugni et al) seems to have a more accurate Y distribution for Kurds, as it shows 20.3% R1a1a which is more in line with other references I have seen.

    Edit: The Eastern Iran (Khorasan) sample may have included Kurds also, since according to the Cultural Society of Khorasani Kurds http://cskk.org/ there are about 1.5 million Kurds there, which would translate to approx 25% of the population of Khorasan
    Last edited by Kurd; 02-15-2016 at 10:44 PM.

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  11. #6
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    The kurds are relatively newcomers to the area. I am actually looking for some Native Persian ydna/autosomal data.

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  13. #7
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    They score Higher south Asian/South central asian than other Iranians/Kurds. Sometimes more Euro/Asian and less Anatolian farmer/near east.


    Persian from Gorgan, a transitional area between the Caspian sea region and Khorasan.

    Punt K12


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus_HG 44.17
    2 Anatolian_NF 19.31
    3 South_Asian 13.84
    4 Near_East 13.11
    5 European_HG 4.94
    6 East_Asian 1.78
    7 Siberian 1.41
    8 South_African_HG 0.66
    9 Sub-Saharan 0.65
    10 Oceanian 0.14

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Iranian 7.19
    2 Kurdish 11.7
    3 Turkish 13.74
    4 Georgian_Jew 15.97
    5 Kumyk 16.29
    6 Afghan_Pashtun 16.37
    7 Laz 16.72
    8 Turkish_Trabzon 17
    9 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
    10 Chechen 17.15
    11 Assyrian 17.57
    12 Iranian_Jew 17.91
    13 Armenian 18.04
    14 North_Ossetian 18.29
    15 Balkar 19.62
    16 Adygei 20.04
    17 Balochi 20.36
    18 Abkhasian 20.66
    19 Makrani 21.05
    20 Pakistan_Pashtun 21.3

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 64.3% Georgian_Jew + 35.7% Burusho @ 1.98
    2 80.5% Iranian + 19.5% Burusho @ 2
    3 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Pathan @ 2.45
    4 82% Iranian + 18% Kashmir @ 2.57
    5 80.2% Iranian + 19.8% Pathan @ 2.7
    6 81.4% Iranian + 18.6% Sindhi @ 2.72
    7 87.2% Iranian + 12.8% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.74
    8 56.1% Makrani + 43.9% Cypriot @ 2.81
    9 82.2% Iranian + 17.8% Punjabi_Jatt_Muslim @ 2.91
    10 80.4% Iranian + 19.6% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 2.99
    11 76.4% Iranian + 23.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.06
    12 66.1% Georgian_Jew + 33.9% Kashmir @ 3.08
    13 84.3% Iranian + 15.7% UP_Muslim @ 3.16
    14 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Keralam @ 3.19
    15 81.9% Iranian + 18.1% Haryana_Jatt @ 3.21
    16 86.9% Iranian + 13.1% Gujarati @ 3.22
    17 57.4% Georgian_Jew + 42.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.25
    18 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 3.28
    19 57.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.28
    20 71.6% Iranian + 28.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.33


    Some info about Old Gorgani dialect:
    Gorgani, a dialect of Mazanderani language, was formerly spoken in the city, but it is extinct now, and only several of its words have remained in the accent of the Persian-speakers of the city.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgan#Demographics

    Map of Gorgan


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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    R1a is common y-dna haplogroup among Eastern Persians while R1b is common among Western Persians. R1b conquared mostly Western Iran while R1a conquared mostly Eastern Iran if both of them were Proto Indo-Iranians.
    Same applies to the certian areas in the south, R1a is more common than R1b.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    They score Higher south Asian/South central asian than other Iranians/Kurds. Sometimes more Euro/Asian and less Anatolian farmer/near east.


    Persian from Gorgan, a transitional area between the Caspian sea region and Khorasan.

    Punt K12


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus_HG 44.17
    2 Anatolian_NF 19.31
    3 South_Asian 13.84
    4 Near_East 13.11
    5 European_HG 4.94
    6 East_Asian 1.78
    7 Siberian 1.41
    8 South_African_HG 0.66
    9 Sub-Saharan 0.65
    10 Oceanian 0.14

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Iranian 7.19
    2 Kurdish 11.7
    3 Turkish 13.74
    4 Georgian_Jew 15.97
    5 Kumyk 16.29
    6 Afghan_Pashtun 16.37
    7 Laz 16.72
    8 Turkish_Trabzon 17
    9 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
    10 Chechen 17.15
    11 Assyrian 17.57
    12 Iranian_Jew 17.91
    13 Armenian 18.04
    14 North_Ossetian 18.29
    15 Balkar 19.62
    16 Adygei 20.04
    17 Balochi 20.36
    18 Abkhasian 20.66
    19 Makrani 21.05
    20 Pakistan_Pashtun 21.3

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 64.3% Georgian_Jew + 35.7% Burusho @ 1.98
    2 80.5% Iranian + 19.5% Burusho @ 2
    3 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Pathan @ 2.45
    4 82% Iranian + 18% Kashmir @ 2.57
    5 80.2% Iranian + 19.8% Pathan @ 2.7
    6 81.4% Iranian + 18.6% Sindhi @ 2.72
    7 87.2% Iranian + 12.8% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.74
    8 56.1% Makrani + 43.9% Cypriot @ 2.81
    9 82.2% Iranian + 17.8% Punjabi_Jatt_Muslim @ 2.91
    10 80.4% Iranian + 19.6% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 2.99
    11 76.4% Iranian + 23.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.06
    12 66.1% Georgian_Jew + 33.9% Kashmir @ 3.08
    13 84.3% Iranian + 15.7% UP_Muslim @ 3.16
    14 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Keralam @ 3.19
    15 81.9% Iranian + 18.1% Haryana_Jatt @ 3.21
    16 86.9% Iranian + 13.1% Gujarati @ 3.22
    17 57.4% Georgian_Jew + 42.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.25
    18 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 3.28
    19 57.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.28
    20 71.6% Iranian + 28.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.33


    Some info about Old Gorgani dialect:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgan#Demographics

    Map of Gorgan

    I have a relative who has Gorgan as her surname but she identifies as Turkmen, its funny, I thought Gorgan was mostly inhabited by Turkmens.

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  19. #10
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    We are in 2016, we need detailed SNPs to understand the demographic realities. General haplogroups can't explain the historical itineraries. Of course the Persians have specific SNPs from that region not found in other places. Scientists are lazy to investigate the Ancient Iranian markers, so let's wait.
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