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Thread: Assyrian mtDNA Distribution

  1. #11
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    Doing the same for the lone Assyrian U4 line, that I did for the U5 line.

    Assyrian
    U4 16093C, 16356C, 16519C
    73G, 195C, 215N, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 499A

    16356C --> U4

    The U4 page at GenBank does not contain any U4 sequences with 16093C. There are a few listed at the FTDNA U4 project page (see bottom).

    From Jean Manco's aDNA page again (please see link, above, in blue). The locus 16093 may not be of particular use for phylogenetic purposes as far as U4 is concerned, but it is again interesting to note the difference in the number of HVR1 transitions/transversions.

    1
    Russia Uznyi Oleni Ostrov [UZOO 16 and 40] 7500 BP
    U4 2 samples 16093C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011

    2
    Russia Popova [Po2] 7000 BP
    U4 16093C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011

    3
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ajvide, Eksta, Gotland [Ajv 52b, 66] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 2 samples 16093C, 16356C Malmstrom 2009

    4
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ajvide, Eksta, Gotland [Ajv 70] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 16093C, 16356C, reported as U4d/U4a2 Malmstrom 2009; Skoglund 2012

    5
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ire, Hangvar, Gotland [Ire 9] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 16093C, 16356C Malmstrom 2009

    6
    Russia Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov [BOO 49-3, 57-1] 3500 BP
    U4a1 2 samples 16093C, 16129A, 16311C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011
    FTDNA U4 project

    U4a1
    169229 Tamil Nadu, India U4 T16093C, A16129G, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C

    71365 b.c. 1898, Collinsville, Illinois U4a1 T16093C, A16129G, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    N84825 b.1568,Jæren,Rogaland,NO U4a1 T16093C, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, T16356C C146T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    U4a3
    N54460 b. Nov 20, 1868, Ontario, Canada U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, A16265G, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C, T16362C

    U4b1a2
    186741 b. 186?, USA U4b1a2 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A247G, T408a, T460C, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    U4b3
    N80837 (1875 - ?) Neotop, Greece U4b3 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A215G, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    136031 Lukovskaya, Russia U4b3 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146Y, C152T, A215G, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    Unassigned - full mitochondrial sequence required for detailed subclade assignment
    N102370 1854 Osen,Trøndel,NO U4 A16051G, T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16234T, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    44834 b. 1860, Poland U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C

    109788 19th C Worksop, England U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C, 522.5A, 522.6C
    Last edited by Humanist; 02-16-2013 at 09:11 PM.

  2. #12
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    UnitedStatesofAmerica UnitedStatesTreeFlag Assyria1913-1923 Assyria1913-1923 UnitedStatesTreeFlag UnitedStatesofAmerica
    I sent a message over to a RF match who I had assumed was a full-blooded member of another group. Turns out, his mother was Assyrian. Even had the same surname as my paternal side. I have a message out to a similar case. Hope to hear back from them as well.

    mtDNA N=79 (February 16, 2013)
    H 26.6%
    U 24.1%
    J 17.7%
    HV 16.5%
    T 7.6%
    K 2.5%
    I 1.3%
    N 1.3%
    W 1.3%
    X 1.3%

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  4. #13
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    Attempting to assign a subclade to an Assyrian "U" line. FGS is necessary, apparently.

    Assyrian
    HVR1: 16111T, 16172C, 16189C, 16234T, 16311C, 16519C
    HVR2: 73G, 195C, 263G, 315.1C, 522-, 523-

    The nearest matches on MitoSearch:

    NYKX9 U 172C,189C,234T,311C,519C -1 Not Tested
    PSC4G U 172C,189C,234T,311C,519C -1 Not Tested
    WMHHD U* 172C,189C,234T,311C,519C -1 Not Tested
    AYZ79 Unknown 172C,189C,234T,311C,519C -1 073G,195C,263G,315.1C,522-,523-
    GQJC9 Unknown 172C,189C,234T,311C,519C -1 073G,195C,249-,263G,309.1C,309.2C,315.1C,522-,523-

    The transition at locus 16111 is the only HVR1 difference.

    The MitoSearch profiles containing biographical data:

    PSC4G : Spain
    AYZ79 : Moca?, Puerto Rico
    GQJC9 : A Sarakatsana from Serres, Greece

    I was not familiar with the Sarakatsani, so I did a search. A few bits from Wikipedia:

    The Sarakatsani...are a group of Greek[7][8] transhumant shepherds inhabiting chiefly Greece, with a smaller presence in neighbouring Bulgaria, southern Albania and the Republic of Macedonia. Historically centered around the Pindus mountains, they have been currently urbanised to a significant degree. Most of them now reside throughout Thrace and Macedonia[9] and are of Greek Orthodox faith.[10]

    The most popular theory about the origin of the name Sarakatsani or Karakatsani, is that it derives from the Turkish word karakaçan (kara = 'black' + kaçan = 'fugitive') meaning 'those who flee to uncultivated lands'.[11] Aromanian scholar Theodor Capidan proposed the theory that the name is derived from the Greek village of Syrrako situated S-E of Ioanina in Epirus.[citation needed]

    Despite the silence of the classical and medieval writers, most scholars argue that the Sarakatsani have ancient origins, descended from pre-classical indigenous pastoralists, citing linguistic evidence and certain aspects of their traditional culture and socioeconomic organization. The anthropological characteristics of the Sarakatsani also classify them as one of the earliest populations on the Balkans and Europe. Their origins have been the subject of broad and permanent interest.

    Regions with significant populations
    Greece 80,000 (1950s estimate) [1]
    Bulgaria 2,511 (2011)[2] - 25,000 [3][4][5]

    SARAKATSANI - THE MOST ANCIENT PEOPLE OF EUROPE

    (From the book in Greek language of Aris Ν. Poulianos, 1993, p.170)

    Sarakatsan1.jpg

    Sarakatsan2.jpg

    Source: http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/sarakatsani.html

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  6. #14
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    Characterization of mitochondrial DNA control region lineages in Iraq
    Int J Legal Med. 2012
    Al-Zahery et al.

    Assyrian HV1b1 IRQ038 16067T 16274A 263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C
    Counting the founders: the matrilineal genetic ancestry of the Jewish Diaspora
    PLoS ONE 3 (4), e2062 (2008)
    Behar et al.

    The Yemenite Jewish community is thought to have been established in the second century CE. Here we found that 42.0% of the mtDNA variation in this community can be attributed to 5 women carrying mtDNAs that belong to sub-branches of Hgs R0a1c, R2a, HV1b, L3x1a and U1a2. While these Hgs, except L3x1a, can be considered as a part of the general West Asian mtDNA genetic pool, they have higher frequencies in East Africa and Yemen [10].
    10% of the Yemenite Jews in Behar et al. 2008 carried the HV1b1 haplotype: 16067 16274 263

    Ian Logan's GenBank page for HV, lists only the following HV1b1 sample (it is a Yemeni Jewish individual from Behar):

    HV1b1 2626 3687 4739 7598 16274

    37. EF556182 Behar 2008 HV1b1 22-APR-2008 A263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C A750G A1438G T2626C A2706G C3687T C4739T A4769G C7028T G7598A A8014T A8860G T12696C A15218G A15326G C16067T G16274A

    Also, in the FTDNA Assyrian Project, there is this Assyrian HV1b1:

    (Kit #90492) - 16067T 16274A 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C

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  8. #15
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    Wow. A few Assyrian RF matches have come in the last few days. They always seem to come in bunches. I suppose we have the sale/lowered price to thank for that.

    mtDNA N=80 (February 17, 2013)
    H 26.3%
    U 25.0%
    J 18.8%
    HV 15.0%
    T 7.5%
    K 2.5%
    I 1.3%
    N 1.3%
    W 1.3%
    X 1.3%

    There are an additional three that I am waiting on. Two of them, based on their matches with both sides of my family, their biographical data (where provided), are more likely than not at least part Assyrian. Still need to wait to hear from them, or hold out hope that they will share more details regarding their background in their profile.
    Last edited by Humanist; 02-18-2013 at 12:51 AM.

  9. #16
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    UnitedStatesofAmerica UnitedStatesTreeFlag Assyria1913-1923 Assyria1913-1923 UnitedStatesTreeFlag UnitedStatesofAmerica
    And, here are the individual haplogroups/subclades (may not be current with PhyloTree Build 15):

    1 H
    2 H
    3 H
    4 H
    5 H
    6 H
    7 H
    8 H
    9 H1
    10 H1
    11 H2a
    12 H2a1
    13 H3
    14 H4
    15 H5a
    16 H6
    17 H7
    18 H7a
    19 H8
    20 H13a2
    21 H14a

    22 HV
    23 HV
    24 HV
    25 HV
    26 HV4a2a
    27 HV4a2a
    28 HV4
    29 HV4b
    30 HV1
    31 HV1
    32 HV1a1
    33 HV1b

    34 I

    35 J
    36 J
    37 J1b
    38 J1b
    39 J1b1b1
    40 J1b3
    41 J1b3
    42 J1c
    43 J1d
    44 J1d
    45 J1d
    46 J1d
    47 J1d
    48 J1d
    49 J1d1

    50 K
    51 K1b1

    52 N1b1b

    53 T1
    54 T1a
    55 T1
    56 T1a2
    57 T1a1b
    58 T2

    59 U*
    60 U1a1
    61 U1a3
    62 U1a3
    63 U1a3
    64 U1b
    65 U2e1
    66 U3
    67 U3
    68 U3b
    69 U3b
    70 U3b1
    71 U4
    72 U5a
    73 U7
    74 U7
    75 U7
    76 U7
    77 U7
    78 U7

    79 W

    80 X2

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  11. #17
    Senior Member GailT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    I just did a quick check of the U5 lines listed on the FTDNA U5 project page. I may be wrong, but it appears that none of the U5 HVR1 sequences have less than 9 transitions/transversions.
    FTDNA is now showing the mtDNA haplogroup project results relative to RSRS, and that is why you see 9 or more markers listed. You would have to covert back to rCRS to get a more familiar result.

    There is only one confirmed U5a* sample, DQ156212 from Spain. It would be very interesting to confirm another U5a*. We have 4 people in the project who tested HVR, who could be U5a, but the complete genome would need to be tested to confirm.

    Is there any possibility of getting your U5a person to upgrade to the FMS?

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  13. #18
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    FTDNA is now showing the mtDNA haplogroup project results relative to RSRS, and that is why you see 9 or more markers listed. You would have to covert back to rCRS to get a more familiar result.

    There is only one confirmed U5a* sample, DQ156212 from Spain. It would be very interesting to confirm another U5a*. We have 4 people in the project who tested HVR, who could be U5a, but the complete genome would need to be tested to confirm.

    Is there any possibility of getting your U5a person to upgrade to the FMS?
    Thanks for the info, Gail. And regarding the upgrade, perhaps next time a sale rolls around.

  14. #19
    Moderator Humanist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Doing the same for the lone Assyrian U4 line, that I did for the U5 line.

    Assyrian
    U4 16093C, 16356C, 16519C
    73G, 195C, 215N, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 499A

    16356C --> U4

    The U4 page at GenBank does not contain any U4 sequences with 16093C. There are a few listed at the FTDNA U4 project page (see bottom).

    From Jean Manco's aDNA page again (please see link, above, in blue). The locus 16093 may not be of particular use for phylogenetic purposes as far as U4 is concerned, but it is again interesting to note the difference in the number of HVR1 transitions/transversions.

    1
    Russia Uznyi Oleni Ostrov [UZOO 16 and 40] 7500 BP
    U4 2 samples 16093C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011

    2
    Russia Popova [Po2] 7000 BP
    U4 16093C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011

    3
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ajvide, Eksta, Gotland [Ajv 52b, 66] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 2 samples 16093C, 16356C Malmstrom 2009

    4
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ajvide, Eksta, Gotland [Ajv 70] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 16093C, 16356C, reported as U4d/U4a2 Malmstrom 2009; Skoglund 2012

    5
    Pitted Ware Sweden Ire, Hangvar, Gotland [Ire 9] 2800-2000 BC
    U4 16093C, 16356C Malmstrom 2009

    6
    Russia Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov [BOO 49-3, 57-1] 3500 BP
    U4a1 2 samples 16093C, 16129A, 16311C, 16356C Der Sarkissian 2011
    FTDNA U4 project

    U4a1
    169229 Tamil Nadu, India U4 T16093C, A16129G, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C

    71365 b.c. 1898, Collinsville, Illinois U4a1 T16093C, A16129G, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    N84825 b.1568,Jæren,Rogaland,NO U4a1 T16093C, C16134T, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, T16356C C146T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    U4a3
    N54460 b. Nov 20, 1868, Ontario, Canada U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, A16265G, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C, T16362C

    U4b1a2
    186741 b. 186?, USA U4b1a2 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A247G, T408a, T460C, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    U4b3
    N80837 (1875 - ?) Neotop, Greece U4b3 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A215G, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    136031 Lukovskaya, Russia U4b3 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146Y, C152T, A215G, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C

    Unassigned - full mitochondrial sequence required for detailed subclade assignment
    N102370 1854 Osen,Trøndel,NO U4 A16051G, T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16234T, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

    44834 b. 1860, Poland U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C

    109788 19th C Worksop, England U4 T16093C, A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C C146T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C, 522.3A, 522.4C, 522.5A, 522.6C

    Perhaps Gail can chime in regarding this as well. An Assyrian U4 from Al-Zahery et al. Does 16311 mutate too often to be of use? Need a full sequence, I suppose?

    Assyrian U4 from Al-Zahery et al.
    HVR1
    16311C 16356C 16519C

    HVR2
    73G 228A 263G 310C 499A 524.1A 524.2C

    The FTDNA U4 project has these:
    U4c2 16261T/16311C cluster
    53022 Saville U4 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T
    147560 1785 Kent, England U4 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    172090 1903-1970(U4) U4 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    224498 b. GA, d. abt 1856 Macon Co GA U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    N60257 b circa 1860s Georgia U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    142238 1823 Athy, Co Kildare, Ireland U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C

    U4c2
    63127 b. c.1770 Surry Co, North Carolina U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C, C16519T C152T, G228A, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    102249 Ireland; U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C, C16519T C152T, G228A, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    218174 b.c. 1860, Poland U4c2 A16129G, T16187C, T16223C, G16230A, C16261T, T16278C, C16311T, T16356C, C16519T C146T, C150T, C152T, A247G, G499A, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C
    Last edited by Humanist; 02-18-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  15. #20
    Senior Member GailT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Perhaps Gail can chime in regarding this as well. An Assyrian U4 from Al-Zahery et al. Does 16311 mutate too often to be of use? Need a full sequence, I suppose?
    Yes, 16311 is an extremely common mutation in haplogroup U, so I would not rely on it alone. Perhaps when combined with other mutations it would be useful.

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