Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 108

Thread: Did haplogroup I only develop after the Ice Age?

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    349
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    The recent study of Dagestan reports a Lak who is I-P19(xI1-P30, I2-P215). Di Cristofaro also found a Hazara with I-M258(xI1-M253, I2-M438) in Afghanistan, now that I check.
    Interesting. Gravetto-Danubian says that "no genuine I* samples have been found". Do you have the detailed data for these people? This would seem to be consistent with the premise that all other haplogroup I individuals (I1 and I2) whose data have been published descend from a common ancestor who migrated to North West Europe from the East.

  2. #22
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,720
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Nationality
    N/A
    Y-DNA
    I2a1-L621- PH 908
    mtDNA
    H 47

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    The recent study of Dagestan reports a Lak who is I-P19(xI1-P30, I2-P215). Di Cristofaro also found a Hazara with I-M258(xI1-M253, I2-M438) in Afghanistan, now that I check.
    Yes its very interesting. Grugni found IJ* in Iran, the Hazara I* and the Dagestani you mentioned. But its hard to say with just 4 or 5 SNPs tested, at best. They need full sequencing, or at least testing of more phyloequivalent SNPs.
    BTW which Dagestani paper are you referring to ? Cagiagli 2009 ?

  3. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    349
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    How much of your FTDNA data is from Northwestern Europe vs from anywhere else?
    My data is FTDNA's entire published dataset. If you are inferring that North Western Europe is probably over-represented in FTDNA's data, that is probably correct, but the same methodology does not similarly predict a North Western European origin, for instance, for any of haplogroups C, E, F, G, H, J, N, O, P, Q, R, R1a, R1b or R2 - despite a European prevalence of some of these haplogroups.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to epp For This Useful Post:

     Megalophias (01-24-2016)

  5. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    349
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Yes its very interesting. Grugni found IJ* in Iran, the Hazara I* and the Dagestani you mentioned. But its hard to say with just 4 or 5 SNPs tested, at best. They need full sequencing, or at least testing of more phyloequivalent SNPs.
    BTW which Dagestani paper are you referring to ? Cagiagli 2009 ?
    I agree that it's hard to infer anything without seeing the full data. That's why I've only used full data samples from a large reliable dataset.

  6. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    994
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Anglo
    Nationality
    Canadian

    "Coevolution of genes and languages and high levels of population structure among the highland populations of Daghestan" was the latest paper, which tested for an upstream I2 marker.

    No full sequences, of course. I hope in the future we will see many large full sequence studies like Francalacci, Hallast, Karmin, Yang, and the latest paper by Barbieri et al, targeted at various regions, including the Caucasus (but above all India!)
    Last edited by Megalophias; 01-24-2016 at 12:39 AM.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Megalophias For This Useful Post:

     Gravetto-Danubian (01-24-2016)

  8. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    994
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Anglo
    Nationality
    Canadian

    Quote Originally Posted by epp View Post
    My data is FTDNA's entire published dataset. If you are inferring that North Western Europe is probably over-represented in FTDNA's data, that is probably correct, but the same methodology does not similarly predict a North Western European origin, for instance, for any of haplogroups C, E, F, G, H, J, N, O, P, Q, R, R1a, R1b or R2 - despite a European prevalence of some of these haplogroups.
    And have you tried for all those haplogroups? I wouldn't be surprised if you could predict a European origin for N and Q, at least.

  9. #27
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,720
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Nationality
    N/A
    Y-DNA
    I2a1-L621- PH 908
    mtDNA
    H 47

    Quote Originally Posted by epp View Post
    My data is FTDNA's entire published dataset. If you are inferring that North Western Europe is probably over-represented in FTDNA's data, that is probably correct, but the same methodology does not similarly predict a North Western European origin, for instance, for any of haplogroups C, E, F, G, H, J, N, O, P, Q, R, R1a, R1b or R2 - despite a European prevalence of some of these haplogroups.
    Where did you find the I*, or 'pre-I1' ?
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 01-24-2016 at 03:39 AM.

  10. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    349
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    And have you tried for all those haplogroups? I wouldn't be surprised if you could predict a European origin for N and Q, at least.
    Yes. N & Q samples didn't indicate European ancestry, but some tests come out with clearer, more definitive answers than others - haplogroup I seems to show one of the clearest pictures.

  11. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    349
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Where did you find the I*, or 'pre-I1' ?
    Sorry, I don't think I've explained myself clearly enough. By this, I mean current I1 samples. As I was analysing the position at a date early in haplogroup I's development (before the I1 mutation is estimated to have occurred), I was just identifying I1's ancestor at that time as being I*.

  12. #30
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,720
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Nationality
    N/A
    Y-DNA
    I2a1-L621- PH 908
    mtDNA
    H 47

    Quote Originally Posted by epp View Post
    Sorry, I don't think I've explained myself clearly enough. By this, I mean current I1 samples. As I was analysing the position at a date early in haplogroup I's development (before the I1 mutation is estimated to have occurred), I was just identifying I1's ancestor at that time as being I*.
    I understand (I think). So going back to your original statement
    From thousands of samples published on the internet, these are the estimated points of origin for the most diverse haplogroup I subclades, based on their degree of internal diversity - I* (pre- I1) - Britain/Norway; I2 (pre- I2b/I2c) - Germany; I2a2 - Britain/Low Countries; I2a1b - Britain; I2a1a (pre-I2a1a1) - Britain/NW France; I2a1a2 - Germany.
    I don't think that's quite getting at the crux of the dispersion of the respectively mentioned sub- groups . For example, I doubt that I1 first expanded from/ originated in Britain/ Norway. In fact, is bet it expanded from the Carpathian region/ EE during the late Neolithic, and possibly had secondary expansion in bronze age Scandinavia, and was later taken to England with Vikings and Saxons

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Scientists develop thought-controlled gene switch
    By Clinton P in forum Medical Genetics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-11-2014, 04:09 PM
  2. Proto-Italic: How did it develop?
    By geomattica in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 10-06-2013, 12:32 AM
  3. Human Brains Develop Wiring Slowly, Differing from Chimps
    By History-of-Things in forum Human Evolution
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2012, 11:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •