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Thread: Z1a1a - Southwestern-Norwegian-cluster

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    It is a shame that they did not label what kind of Saami they tested in Norway, I suspect they are northern Saami. However, you are aware that southern Saami in Sweden and Norway are the same ethnic group right? So Southern Swedish is the same as southern Norwegian.

    Furthermore, those regional difference arent that important in this respect given that we know the Saami as a umbrella term share a common genepool that span the whole of the Nordic region and is found in all the Saami regional groups, such as Lule, southern Saami etc....

    Here is a arty type Video about the south Saami:
    Yes, i know they are the same ethnic group, but Z still only reaches a 4,3% frequency in Southern Swedish Samis yet it's 8% in Rogaland, at least according to OP.

    The relatively high frequency of Z in Rogaland could be due to recent (or ancient ) founder effects but i guess that needs to be further investigated

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    Yes, i know they are the same ethnic group, but Z still only reaches a 4,3% frequency in Southern Swedish Samis yet it's 8% in Rogaland, at least according to OP.

    The relatively high frequency of Z in Rogaland could be due to recent (or ancient ) founder effects but i guess that needs to be further investigated
    I do not think mtDNA Z is found in 8% of the Rogaland genepool, and it is pretty obvious that the migration of Z1 came from Saami peoples to Rogaland (or perhaps Finnish people), rather than the other way around, due to a larger spread of Z1 among the various Saami groups and Finnish peoples then in Norway.

  3. #23
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    Just remembered this, they have found Z1a in Sweden that dates to the 1200's, so we know it has been in Scandinavia at least that long:
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/royaldna.shtml

  4. #24
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    Z1a is pretty old in the surroundings of Fennoscandia as it has been found in Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov in the Kola Peninsula, 3,500 uncal. yBP.

    There is not any reason to presume that people who inhabited the Kola Peninsula c. 1500 BC were linguistically related to modern Saamis but we can very well presume that modern Z1a in Scandinavia is related to ancient Z1a in northern Fennoscandia.

    Of course, Z1a in Norwegians or Swedes may have been mediated by Saamis but it is not a necessity.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573127/

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     evon (09-02-2016)

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Just remembered this, they have found Z1a in Sweden that dates to the 1200's, so we know it has been in Scandinavia at least that long:
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/royaldna.shtml
    Sorry if I am off topic, but that's important

    The result of Bourbon is wrong in this database.
    All kings of France are supposed to be R1b-Z381, not G2a

    https://expertadn.fr/bonne-ou-mauvaise-tete-dhenri-iv/ ( in French)

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ngs-and-queens
    My results from David Wesolowski's Ancestry Detective Service:

    West British (Britonic?) 42.3%
    Continental Northern and Eastern European 36.6%
    Central French 21.1%

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     Captain Nordic (09-02-2016)

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    Sorry if I am off topic, but that's important

    The result of Bourbon is wrong in this database.
    All kings of France are supposed to be R1b-Z381, not G2a

    https://expertadn.fr/bonne-ou-mauvaise-tete-dhenri-iv/ ( in French)

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ngs-and-queens
    You should get in contact with Jean, she is a regular member of this forum, she operates that website..

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to evon For This Useful Post:

     Captain Nordic (09-02-2016), Helgenes50 (09-02-2016)

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Z1a is pretty old in the surroundings of Fennoscandia as it has been found in Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov in the Kola Peninsula, 3,500 uncal. yBP.

    There is not any reason to presume that people who inhabited the Kola Peninsula c. 1500 BC were linguistically related to modern Saamis but we can very well presume that modern Z1a in Scandinavia is related to ancient Z1a in northern Fennoscandia.

    Of course, Z1a in Norwegians or Swedes may have been mediated by Saamis but it is not a necessity.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573127/
    Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov belonged to a suprisingly widespread North siberian cultural zone called Ymyakhtakh.
    The site has been studied by both physical anthropologists and geneticists and both have come to the conclusion that the people of this site were mainly of North asiatic stock and NOT of the local population.
    More information about Bolshoy Oleni ostrov, Yukaghirs and Ymyakhtakh:
    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...-of-a-Yukaghir


    Oh i almost forgot, here's a table of the mitochondrial haplogroups for Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov (along with Uznyi Oleni Ostrov and Popovo):

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     Megalophias (09-02-2016)

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    I do not think mtDNA Z is found in 8% of the Rogaland genepool, and it is pretty obvious that the migration of Z1 came from Saami peoples to Rogaland (or perhaps Finnish people), rather than the other way around, due to a larger spread of Z1 among the various Saami groups and Finnish peoples then in Norway.
    I was talking about the OP's sample of 4/50, which is around 8%. I don't know if that's the actual number for Rogaland in general.

    Kristiina and i have already posted evidence that mtDNA Z clearly has ancient origins in Fennoscandia (Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov settlement) and that the ancient peoples of that site mainly trace their genes and looks to north asiatic immigrants from Siberia and not Finno-ugric speakers.

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    I was talking about the OP's sample of 4/50, which is around 8%. I don't know if that's the actual number for Rogaland in general.

    Kristiina and i have already posted evidence that mtDNA Z clearly has ancient origins in Fennoscandia (Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov settlement) and that the ancient peoples of that site mainly trace their genes and looks to north asiatic immigrants from Siberia and not Finno-ugric speakers.
    Yeah I agree with that, it is after all north Eurasia that Z1a came from...and Saami and Finnish people have some DNA from north Eurasia...

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Yeah I agree with that, it is after all north Eurasia that Z1a came from...and Saami and Finnish people have some DNA from north Eurasia...
    The Bolshoy people or something like that could be the source for it, if that was the case one would expect some Uralic speakers of Russia like Mordovians who never had contact with them to have a different source. That could be detected with Chromopainter, and Busby et al 2015. indeed points towards such a difference.

     


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