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Thread: Possible fertile crescent admixture in South Europe?

  1. #1
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    Possible fertile crescent admixture in South Europe?

    Using the ancient European genomes, WHG (Loschbour, La Braña), EEF (LBK, Troc3, Anatolian Farmers) and Yamnaya,
    we can not find exactly the current populations of Europe, mainly in the South.
    I used the results of EurasiaK10CHG calculator (made by Kurd), and the new tool created by Huijbregts:
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ative-for-4Mix

    For the countries of southern Europe and some western and central, a mixture with Middle Eastern populations, improves the results significantly.
    These are the populations ranging from Cyprus to Iraq, passing through Armenia, that gives the best results.
    I have not kept ultimately Cyprus and Armenia, as these two countries may have been too into contact with European countries.
    So I chose Assyria, Syria and the Iraqi Jews.
    It would be better a ancient genome from Mesopotamia or the fertile crescent to be sure!

    Regarding Yamnaya, the calculator gives different results according to the ancient yamnaya genome.
    I took extreme: I0231 for YamnayaE and Rise552 for YamnayaW
    I put Kotias in Yamnaya because we do not know the exact composition of those who migrated to western Europe.
    The mixture of the three can give a fairly close mixed.








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    For my autosomal analyses, see Hidden Content

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    Yes there's definietly Copper Age to Bronze-Age Anatolian admixture in Europe , especially South Europe. Those Bronze-Age Anatolians were different from the Early Neolithic Anatolian farmer like Barcin_. They notably brought large amount of CHG admixture.
    Last edited by Odyss; 01-10-2016 at 10:41 AM.

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    Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

    Bell Beaker:

    Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

    Corded Ware:

    Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

    Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

    Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

    Bell Beaker:

    Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

    Corded Ware:

    Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

    Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

    Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???
    Yamnaya Kalmykia has more CHG because it's more southern.

    And I'd say it's pretty clear R1a is from EHG.

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    And I'd say it's pretty clear R1a is from EHG.
    R1a-M198 does not show up in EHG, though.

    EHG had both R1a and R1b (see Samara sample), but not modern subclades - those were some extinct subclades.

    Even Khvalynsk R1a and R1b are not modern according to Genetiker.

    Actually R1a from Tarim Basin are the oldest samples of R1a-M198 found so far.

    Yamnaya Kalmykia has more CHG because it's more southern.
    And Corded Ware has more CHG because it's more southern... wait - no, it is not more southern than Bell Beaker.

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    Actually R1a from Tarim Basin are the oldest samples of R1a-M198 found so far.
    Possibly with the exception of Poltavka sample (which might be older), but Poltavka is already R1a-Z93.

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    NE French scores are rather surprising. Not sure what's going on there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    And Corded Ware has more CHG because it's more southern... wait - no, it is not more southern than Bell Beaker.
    Corded Ware doesn't have more CHG than Yamnaya. But it has more CHG than Bell Beaker, because it's an earlier steppe-derived group and therefore has more steppe ancestry.

    Btw, I don't know what the case is in this test. I'm going by what I know.

    R1a-M198 does not show up in EHG, though.
    R1a-M198 shows up in ancient samples with high ratios of EHG. You would need some serious twists and turns to get R1a-M198 from somewhere other than Eastern Europe, where its sister clades are. I fail to see the point, unless you're bored or something.

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    R1a-M198 shows up in ancient samples with high ratios of EHG.
    We don't really know what was the extent of autosomally EHG people, though.

    Just like we don't know if autosomally "Teal people" lived only in Georgia, or somewhere else too.

    By the way - do we have autosomal DNA of Tarim mummies with R1a-M198 ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre Organtino View Post
    NE French scores are rather surprising. Not sure what's going on there.
    FRNW is rather France North-West, not France North-East ??? Where do you see France NE ???

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