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Thread: DNA data obtained from blood of Louis XVI

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    DNA data obtained from blood of Louis XVI

    Dried squash holds headless French king's blood
    by Veronique Martinache

    PARIS, Dec 31, 2012 (AFP) - Two centuries after the French people beheaded Louis XVI and dipped their handkerchiefs in his blood, scientists believe they have authenticated the remains of one such rag kept as a revolutionary souvenir.

    Researchers have been trying for years to verify a claim imprinted on an ornately decorated calabash that it contains a sample of the blood of the French king guillotined in Paris on January 21, 1793.

    The dried, hollowed squash is adorned with portraits of revolutionary heroes and the text: "On January 21, Maximilien Bourdaloue dipped his handkerchief in the blood of Louis XVI after his decapitation".

    He is then believed to have placed the fabric in the gourd, and had it embellished.

    The sinister souvenir has been in the private hands of an Italian family for more than a century, said the team of experts from Spain and France which published its findings in the journal Forensic Science International.

    Two years ago, analysis of DNA taken from blood traces found inside the ornate vegetable revealed a likely match for someone of Louis' description, including his blue eyes.

    But not having the DNA of any kingly relation, researchers could not prove beyond doubt that the blood belonged to Louis.

    Until now.

    Using the genetic material, the team managed to draw a link to another gruesome artefact -- a mummified head believed to belong to Louis' 16th century predecessor, Henri IV.

    In so doing, they provided evidence for authenticating both sets of remains -- uncovering a rare genetic signature shared by two men separated by seven generations.

    "This study shows that (the owners of the remains) share a genetic heritage passed on through the paternal line. They have a direct link to one another through their fathers," French forensic pathologist Philippe Charlier told AFP.

    The revolution in which Louis and queen Marie-Antoinette lost their heads in public executions also saw mobs ransack the royal chapel at Saint-Denis, north of Paris -- hauling ancient monarchs like Henri from their tombs and mutilating the remains which they tossed into pits.

    An individual was recorded to have rescued a severed head from the chaos.

    Long thought to belong to Henri, assassinated at the age of 57 by a Catholic fanatic in 1610, the head changed hands several times over the next two centuries, bought and sold at auction or kept in secretive private collections.

    Scientists in 2010 said they found proof that the head was indeed Henri's, citing physical features that matched 16th century portraits of the king, as well as radiocarbon dating, 3D scanning and X-rays.

    The 2010 study, however, found no DNA and its findings have been contested by some.

    With the new evidence, "it is about 250 times more likely that the (owners of the) head and the blood are paternally related, than unrelated," co-author Carles Lalueza Fox of the Institut de Biologia Evolutiva in Barcelona told AFP by email.

    Taken together with all the physical and forensic evidence, historical records and folklore, it would be "extremely surprising" if the remains did not belong to the two assassinated monarchs, he added.

    "One can say that there is absolutely no doubt anymore," about the authenticity of the mummified head, added Charlier.

    The DNA data obtained from Louis XVI could now be used to decipher the genetic code of France's last absolute monarch and his living relatives.

    http://www.mysinchew.com/node/81395?tid=10

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    I'm astonished to see this haplogroup already cited in a Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...01_%28Y-DNA%29 ):

    "King Louis XVI of France from a genetic test on blood in a cloth purported to have been collected at his beheading and maintained in an ornate gourd decorated with French Revolution themes. Confirmation of this genetic profile requires testing of a known relative. The sample was tested at two laboratories with the same results.[37] The sample is most consistent with G2a3b1a samples and contains unusually high, rare values for markers DYS385B and DYS458 within this G subgroup.
    DYS 393 390 19 391 385A 385B 439 389I 392 389II 448 458 456 437 438 YGATAH4 DYS635
    Alleles 14 22 15 10 13 18 12 12 11 30 21 21 15 15 10 12 21

    Other notables purported to belong to haplogroup G include American historical figures Phillip Hamman and Linn Banks (U.S. Representative from Virginia), physicist John G. Cramer, actor James Franciscus, and former Chairman of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Chairman of the Public Broadcasting Service, Newton Minow and Ítzi the Iceman."
    DE1 - DOD219 - V198 - M111723 www.regbands.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaender View Post
    I'm astonished to see this haplogroup already cited in a Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...01_%28Y-DNA%29 ):

    "King Louis XVI of France from a genetic test on blood in a cloth purported to have been collected at his beheading and maintained in an ornate gourd decorated with French Revolution themes. Confirmation of this genetic profile requires testing of a known relative. The sample was tested at two laboratories with the same results.[37] The sample is most consistent with G2a3b1a samples and contains unusually high, rare values for markers DYS385B and DYS458 within this G subgroup.
    DYS 393 390 19 391 385A 385B 439 389I 392 389II 448 458 456 437 438 YGATAH4 DYS635
    Alleles 14 22 15 10 13 18 12 12 11 30 21 21 15 15 10 12 21

    Other notables purported to belong to haplogroup G include American historical figures Phillip Hamman and Linn Banks (U.S. Representative from Virginia), physicist John G. Cramer, actor James Franciscus, and former Chairman of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Chairman of the Public Broadcasting Service, Newton Minow and Ítzi the Iceman."
    That Wiki article cites the original "presumptive" analysis back in 2010. What they have now is claimed to be solid evidence.

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    Posted today to a group I subscribe to,

    "The mummified head a few years ago was attributed to Henri IV, by Spanish researchers is not yet that of the former French king. That said Jean-Jacques Cassiman, professor of Human Genetics at the University of Leuven, Belgium.
    Jean-Jacques Cassiman made another discovery: the blood found on a handkerchief, nor does belong to Louis XIV executed in 1793. The Leuven DNA specialist will present his findings around the handkerchief of Louis XVI and the head of Henri IV on 9 October at a press conference in Paris.
    It is not the first time that Cassiman does DNA research after 'Royal' myths in France. In 1998 he proved that Karl Wilhelm Naundorff certainly was not a descendant of the Bourbons. So he was not - as the man halfway through the 19th century blaze abroad - the 'Lost King Louis XVII' and therefore the rightful heir to the throne of France. In 2004, the Leuven geneticist proved again that a heart that is kept in Paris, is indeed Louis XVII.
    That same year, French historians asked him also to ascertain whether the remains of Napoleon, preserved in the D˘me des Invalides in Paris, indeed were that of Napoleon, but the French government never gave admission for this.
    (Het Nieuwsblad, October 5)"Article.jpg
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    Thanks for the update. Let's see what emerges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    Thanks for the update. Let's see what emerges.
    Your welcome. If anyone can speak Dutch
    Here is a radio interview,

    http://www.radio1.be/programmas/joos...-opnieuw-hoofd



    Looking forward to the conference.
    Last edited by Diana; 10-07-2013 at 06:58 AM. Reason: adding link..
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    The new paper from Larmuseau: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2013211a.html
    Genetic analysis strongly increases the opportunity to identify skeletal remains or other biological samples from historical figures. However, validation of this identification is essential and should be done by DNA typing of living relatives. Based on the similarity of a limited set of Y-STRs, a blood sample and a head were recently identified as those belonging respectively to King Louis XVI and his paternal ancestor King Henry IV. Here, we collected DNA samples from three living males of the House of Bourbon to validate the since then controversial identification of these remains. The three living relatives revealed the Bourbon’s Y-chromosomal variant on a high phylogenetic resolution for several members of the lineage between Henry IV and Louis XVI. This ‘true’ Bourbon’s variant is different from the published Y-STR profiles of the blood as well as of the head. The earlier identifications of these samples can therefore not be validated. Moreover, matrilineal genealogical data revealed that the published mtDNA sequence of the head was also different from the one of a series of relatives. This therefore leads to the conclusion that the analyzed samples were not from the French kings. Our study once again demonstrated that in order to realize an accurate genetic identification of historical remains DNA typing of living persons, who are paternally or maternally related with the presumed donor of the samples, is required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    It is different then what was published. Hopefully they will post the results....
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    http://<br /> http://en.wikipedia.or...rbons_of_India
    There are also Bourbons in India... they are hap G.. as the head of Henri iv and the blood of Louis XVI...
    Interesting actual spanish Bourbons are differents..
    What happened.. ??!
    In actual Spanish Bourbon branch?
    May be.. they are the true Bourbons.. mah..
    http://www.bourbon-bhopal.org/home.html
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 10-09-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  16. #10
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    I always knew there was break in Spain! LOL!

    Actually I wrote this back in June, "Some believe there was a break (Infidelity)in the line back in Spain. So still a good possibility, I wouldn't write them out of the books just yet. :-)"

    In the, Babenburg Dynasty DNA looks like L48 thread...
    Last edited by Diana; 10-09-2013 at 07:15 PM.
    R1b1a2a1a1b3 U152+ Z56+ Z144/Z145/Z146+ P312+ U106- M228.2- M160- M126- L4- L21- L2- L196- L176.2- DYS492=14 Roma, Italia.

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