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Thread: R1b-L21 Top-Layer and Misc Subclades SNP Pack

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    Exclamation R1b-L21 Top-Layer and Misc Subclades SNP Pack

    The new FTDNA R1b-L21 SNP Pack is best described as the R1b-L21 Top-Layer and Misc Subclades SNP Pack. You could think of it as a backbone or orientation panel but it is much more of a stocky, short bush than a long backbone. This Pack is the early branching of L21, DF13, DF63, etc. A couple experimental SNPs, i.e. ZZ10, are thrown in. People with haplogroup labels R-L21, R-DF13 and R-Z2542 should definitely consider this.

    The L21 Pack has bridge (pointer) SNPs to other larger SNP Packs of DF13, but there is a bonus for the smaller subclades.

    Let's look at what the L21 Pack is NOT. It only has pointers or bridges to the following Packs available from FTDNA. They are the larger subclades of DF13 and the below Packs are specialized for people in these large subclades.

    R1b-CTS4466 (Irish II/South types)
    R1b-DF41 (CTS2501 & includes Royal Stewarts)
    R1b-L1065 (CTS6838/CTS7030 & Scots Modal types)
    R1b-L513 (11-13 Combo types)
    R1b-M222 (Northwest Irish/Irish I types/Niall's badges)
    R1b-Z253 (includes Irish III, Irish IV/Continental types)
    R1b-Z255 (Irish Sea/Leinster Modal types & includes L159.2)
    R1b-Z3000 (Clan Colla DYS425=null types)

    One way to to look at the R1b-L21 SNP Pack is to consider it is everything else and the kitchen sink. If you compare the above already existing SNP Packs with the L21 Pack you see some groups are missing, though:

    R1b-DF21 except Z3000
    R1b-DF49 except M222

    It doesn't take much to figure out that those two SNP Packs must be on their way to us also.

    Now, back to what's in the R1b-L21 Top-Layer & Misc. SNP Pack. Besides the top layers, we see some smaller but good sized subclades with surprising depth of coverage. They include:

    R1b-CTS3386, R1b-Z251, R1b-DF63, R1b-FGC5494, R1b-S1026, R1b-FGC11134 except CTS4466, R-MC14 and more.

    In other words, not just those SNPs immediately above are included in the R1b-L21 Pack but several layers of SNPs underneath them. In a way, people in these smaller subclades get a free ride. Those smaller subclades will get well tested by a lot of people.

    NGS testing (i.e. Big Y or FGC Elite) is still the preferable so you can discover your own line of SNPs.

    However, this kind of SNP Pack is much more affordable. The R1b-L21 SNP Pack is a big pack with over 150 SNPs. It's $99 during their introductory first run and should go up to $119 when the first run is filled.

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     Bowe(s) ONS (10-07-2015),  Dubhthach (10-03-2015),  FunkyWanderer (10-16-2015),  haleaton (10-02-2015),  Janet winans (12-11-2015)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    ...
    R1b-DF21 except Z3000
    ... .
    I think this is the next big competitive focus as FTDNA has been working on this. I see word is getting out as YSEQ just updated their DF21 panel. The competition is great. I was worried that the U106 might get too much attention but all of this is helping us in L21. ( just joking, I want to see the U106 guys have lot's of choices too.)

    The best news is that L21ers are smart people. They are getting it that NGS testing really is the way to go (if you have the $). We have a new burst of Big Y orders with this $100 off promotion. I want to say "Remember the Alamo" but it is "Remember Lewis and Clark", the true explorers.

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    Out of curiosity, how many L21 SNP Pack orders by people in the L21 project made it into batch 644?

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     gogogenes (10-15-2015)

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    I see that batch 644 now has an expectation date: Nov. 18 - Dec. 2.

    On a side note, as Murphy's law would have it, after seven years of waiting for one of my uncle's matches to test beyond L21, his closest match (and probable surname match) shows up as DF63 on the same day that the batch expectation date was posted. At least I'll get confirmation and find out his CTS6919 status.

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    Please report any problems you see in the early testing here.
    We have about 25 or so results in. I haven't see anything that looks out of whack yet but we will probably have some need for reruns and perhaps a discarded SNP or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogogenes View Post
    I see that batch 644 now has an expectation date: Nov. 18 - Dec. 2.

    On a side note, as Murphy's law would have it, after seven years of waiting for one of my uncle's matches to test beyond L21, his closest match (and probable surname match) shows up as DF63 on the same day that the batch expectation date was posted. At least I'll get confirmation and find out his CTS6919 status.
    My uncle's results are back already and as it turns out a great value as he has tested four levels beyond DF63!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogogenes View Post
    My uncle's results are back already and as it turns out a great value as he has tested four levels beyond DF63!
    Both Z251 and DF63 are well covered in the L21 pack. They, along with FGC5494, S1026, MC14, CTS3386, etc. are the "Misc." subclades. That doesn't sound so good, but they are essentially getting a "free ride" so a lot of people will get these SNPs exercised. We are finding the inclusion of FGC5494 in the M343 Backbone Pack as been very good for turning up people. FGC5494 may be larger than we thought.... that's why we test, to find out what we didn't know.

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     gogogenes (11-06-2015)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Both Z251 and DF63 are well covered in the L21 pack. They, along with FGC5494, S1026, MC14, CTS3386, etc. are the "Misc." subclades. That doesn't sound so good, but they are essentially getting a "free ride" so a lot of people will get these SNPs exercised. We are finding the inclusion of FGC5494 in the M343 Backbone Pack as been very good for turning up people. FGC5494 may be larger than we thought.... that's why we test, to find out what we didn't know.
    A bunch of R1b-L21 SNP Pack results came in. This will be particularly good for the smaller subclades as the L21 pack hits them pretty hard. I see new folks in A5846, CTS3386, BY2868, FGC35995, S1026, S1051, S16264, CTS1751, FGC5494, DF63 and Z251.

    DF49xM222 had a good day but FGC5494 seems to be the subclade that won't stop growing. Once upon a time it was a rejected SNP. However, I think Z251 may be the winner for the day.

    This will give Richard S plenty to do.

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    My Nutter friend's results came in, Z253+. I don't see any irregularities at all, with ZZ10_1 and ZZ10_2 being positive as would be expected.

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    my L21 SNP pack results came in today, was part of Batch 645

    Z251 and Z18092+

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