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Thread: Request: Y-DNA haplogroup results from Allentoft 2015

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Re-assignment of R1b samples from Haak et al. 2015 and Allentoft et al. 2015

    I0410, Els Trocs [Troc3] 5178-5066 BC
    Haak ei al. 2015: M415+, M343+, M478-, PF6399-, L265-, L150-, M269-, V35-, V69-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, M415/PF6251+) > (L754eq: L774/PF6245/YSC277+, PF1144+) > (V88eq: PF6376+) > (V88 subclades: V35-, V69-) (P297eq: FGC57/L1067/M12189/PF6424/SK2079/Z8148-, PF6106-) (M269eq: PF6399/S10-, PF6426/YSC72-, L265/PF6431-, L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, PF6448-, CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449-, L753/PF6486/YSC18-, M269/PF6517-) (M478eq: M478-, Y13199-, Y13871-, Y13872-, Y13886-)
    There is also Y416/Z8156+ which can be positioned in the P297 level. However, Y416/Z8156 is highly recurrent marker. So, I think it cannot be a reliable marker for the P297 level.

    I0124, Lebyazhinka IV on the Sok River [SVP44], 5640-5555 BC ‘Samara hunter-gatherer’
    Haak ei al. 2015: M343+, L278+ M269-, M478-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, PF6248+, L278+, L1349/PF6268/YSC231+) > (L754eq: n/a) > (P297eq: PF6513+) > (M478eq: Y13872+, M478-, Y13866-) (M269eq: L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, M269/PF6517-)
    Modern samples have at least 49 phylogenetically equivalent markers in the M478 level. The presence of positive and negative markers in the M478 node can reflect an intermediate stage of its formation.

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  3. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    Re-assignment of R1b samples from Haak et al. 2015 and Allentoft et al. 2015

    I0410, Els Trocs [Troc3] 5178-5066 BC
    Haak ei al. 2015: M415+, M343+, M478-, PF6399-, L265-, L150-, M269-, V35-, V69-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, M415/PF6251+) > (L754eq: L774/PF6245/YSC277+, PF1144+) > (V88eq: PF6376+) > (V88 subclades: V35-, V69-) (P297eq: FGC57/L1067/M12189/PF6424/SK2079/Z8148-, PF6106-) (M269eq: PF6399/S10-, PF6426/YSC72-, L265/PF6431-, L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, PF6448-, CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449-, L753/PF6486/YSC18-, M269/PF6517-) (M478eq: M478-, Y13199-, Y13871-, Y13872-, Y13886-)
    There is also Y416/Z8156+ which can be positioned in the P297 level. However, Y416/Z8156 is highly recurrent marker. So, I think it cannot be a reliable marker for the P297 level.

    I0124, Lebyazhinka IV on the Sok River [SVP44], 5640-5555 BC ‘Samara hunter-gatherer’
    Haak ei al. 2015: M343+, L278+ M269-, M478-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, PF6248+, L278+, L1349/PF6268/YSC231+) > (L754eq: n/a) > (P297eq: PF6513+) > (M478eq: Y13872+, M478-, Y13866-) (M269eq: L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, M269/PF6517-)
    Modern samples have at least 49 phylogenetically equivalent markers in the M478 level. The presence of positive and negative markers in the M478 node can reflect an intermediate stage of its formation.
    Thanks smal. On the re-assignment, I just want to make sure I am reading your list correctly...are you saying that El Trocs is PF6376+ which is a V88 equivalent?
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    Re-assignment of R1b samples from Haak et al. 2015 and Allentoft et al. 2015

    I0410, Els Trocs [Troc3] 5178-5066 BC
    Haak ei al. 2015: M415+, M343+, M478-, PF6399-, L265-, L150-, M269-, V35-, V69-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, M415/PF6251+) > (L754eq: L774/PF6245/YSC277+, PF1144+) > (V88eq: PF6376+) > (V88 subclades: V35-, V69-) (P297eq: FGC57/L1067/M12189/PF6424/SK2079/Z8148-, PF6106-) (M269eq: PF6399/S10-, PF6426/YSC72-, L265/PF6431-, L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, PF6448-, CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449-, L753/PF6486/YSC18-, M269/PF6517-) (M478eq: M478-, Y13199-, Y13871-, Y13872-, Y13886-)
    Els Trocs [Troc3] reassignment to R1b1c now up at http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/eur...ithicdna.shtml with grateful thanks. Sorts out that issue!

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  7. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Thanks smal. On the re-assignment, I just want to make sure I am reading your list correctly...are you saying that El Trocs is PF6376+ which is a V88 equivalent?
    Yes, PF6376 is a V88 equivalent and it is positive in I0410.

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  9. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    Yes, PF6376 is a V88 equivalent and it is positive in I0410.
    Thanks. Have these samples been re-sequenced, or a more extensive call list been made available?
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    I0124, Lebyazhinka IV on the Sok River [SVP44], 5640-5555 BC ‘Samara hunter-gatherer’
    Haak ei al. 2015: M343+, L278+ M269-, M478-

    Re-assignment: (M343eq: M343/PF6242+, PF6248+, L278+, L1349/PF6268/YSC231+) > (L754eq: n/a) > (P297eq: PF6513+) > (M478eq: Y13872+, M478-, Y13866-) (M269eq: L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1-, M269/PF6517-)
    Modern samples have at least 49 phylogenetically equivalent markers in the M478 level. The presence of positive and negative markers in the M478 node can reflect an intermediate stage of its formation.
    Re-assignment of Sok River, Samara [SVP44] to R1b1a now at http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml with grateful thanks. Very interesting. So it could be an ancestor of R1b1a1 (M73). Makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Thanks. Have these samples been re-sequenced, or a more extensive call list been made available?
    Haak et al. have analysed the data against ISOGG version 8.22 as of April 22, 2013. But we have now many NGS data for V88 (1 from 1KGP, 4 BigY and 2 articles of Francalacci). The current SNP list is much better.

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  14. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Re-assignment of Sok River, Samara [SVP44] to R1b1a now at http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml with grateful thanks. Very interesting. So it could be an ancestor of R1b1a1 (M73). Makes sense.
    And so not ancestor of the Yamnaya M269.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    And so not ancestor of the Yamnaya M269.
    Exactly. It's a brother (or cousin - whatever) - or at least it could be.
    Last edited by Jean M; 06-22-2015 at 12:58 PM.

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  18. #240
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    Jean M, I just want to note that there seems to be one mistake in the "Mesolithic" section of your site.

    Zhizhitskaya culture were agriculturalists, at least this is what I have found about them in the internet.

    Can you investigate this? If they were such, then they shoud perhaps be moved to the "Neolithic" section.

    Here is my source on this (he is a knowledgeable Belarusian guy):

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post3622337

    Quote Originally Posted by Simargl
    N1c1 was found in Zhizhitskaya culture in Smolensk Russia on the eastern border of Belarus dated to 4,500 years.

    The Zhizhitskaya archaeological culture was surrounded by Corded-Ware culture. The differences between the Zhizhitskaya and Corded-Ware is the material culture of the former being built on tombs in the lake near water. Furthermore, people of Zhizhitskaya had agricultural practices similar to those of central Europe. Make a mental note N1c1 in Zhizhitskaya is 4,500 years old.

    The Comb Ceramic culture which included the Narva culture encompassed territories of north-eastern Europe. There is some debate about the language of inhabitants of the Narva culture. Some scholars suggest that inhabitants were paleo-European speakers based on evidence of toponyms and hydronyms. The Comb Ceramic culture was replaced by Corded-ware horizon associated with IE family of languages by scholars. Proto-Finnic speakers migrated to Baltic shore around 3,000 from Volga-Ural direction as per Finnish scholars.

    Who could spread N1c1 in the Baltic region in the light of this information? All three - paleo-Europeans, Indo-Europeans and proto-Finnic could be responsible for spreading N1c1 into the Baltic region. It was certainly not proto-Finnic speakers in western Russia, Smolensk 4,500 years ago given linguistic evidence. From Smolensk Russia, N1c1 could travel along Daugava/western Dvina River into northern Belarus, Latvia and Lithuania.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-22-2015 at 01:52 PM.

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