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Thread: R1b findings by (Allentoft et al. 2015)

  1. #51
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    Anyone have any thoughts on the U106 in the CW-Battle Axe Swedish sample? Obviously its relatively late, beaker existed and Michal raised some unusual aspects of the burial itself. Is the general feeling that this probably is evidence of U106 in a non-beaker derived man of CW extraction. He is from Sweden so seeking a beaker explanation would look like special pleading to me. Is the general feeling then that L11 and U106 were in CW and not some stray from another culture?

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts on the U106 in the CW-Battle Axe Swedish sample? Obviously its relatively late, beaker existed and Michal raised some unusual aspects of the burial itself. Is the general feeling that this probably is evidence of U106 in a non-beaker derived man of CW extraction. He is from Sweden so seeking a beaker explanation would look like special pleading to me. Is the general feeling then that L11 and U106 were in CW and not some stray from another culture?
    If L11 both headed north as a minority in CW and also west to form the P312 block associated with beaker then my favoured idea for the original location of L11 would be within western Yamanaya but bordering the origin areas of CW closely so a little L11 could bleed through into CW. It seems to me that L11 bordered and could pass in small nos into CW but was really part of it. That would tend to place CW in the lower stretches of the westernmost steppe rivers.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    A quick check against some 1000 Genome samples...seven samples that are at least R1b1 are all L1345+
    Thanks, but I was looking for guidance on exact assignment. Can I say R1b1? Or leave it at R1b (as at present). Slightly confused by the R1b1'14.

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Thanks, but I was looking for guidance on exact assignment. Can I say R1b1? Or leave it at R1b (as at present). Slightly confused by the R1b1'14.
    Not much help I'm afraid but '14 seams to be some sort of indication of the level

    An M269 equivalent SNP is described as R1b1'12

    P312 as R1b1'5

    L23 as R1b1'11

    As I said not really very helpful : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Yeah, L1345 is in Karmin 2015 on their R1b1'14 branch (the one uniting V88 and P297) listed as an equivalent to L754. So just a general marker of R1b1, excluding only the very basal R1b found in Tajikistan and Bhutan.
    YFull shows L1345 as a 4-star SNP, so it's very reliable. But its level is listed as R1b1 <-> R1b. In other words, YFull cannot place it securely at one level or the other (based on samples seen so far), so it is simply left off the tree for now.

    To distinguish between the levels, YFull needs an R1b* sample.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 06-24-2015 at 08:09 PM.

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  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    YFull shows L1345 as a 4-star SNP, so it's very reliable. But its level is listed as R1b1 <-> R1b. In other words, YFull cannot place it securely at one level or the other (based on samples seen so far), so it is simply left off the tree for now.

    To distinguish between the levels, YFull needs an R1b* sample.
    Thank you so much. Really helpful. I will stick with R1b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Thank you so much. Really helpful. I will stick with R1b.
    I think you should list it as R1b1 and reference Karmin 2015 because it means they had enough basal R1b samples to distinguish it. I don't think Y-Full has that.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Thank you so much. Really helpful. I will stick with R1b.
    Jean M, look at my consensus tree for the R1b early subclades.

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    Thanks for that flurry of discussion. What I can take to the bank then is that RISE1 is solidly R1b1 but of too low coverage to squeeze anything further out of him. The possibility that he was L11 derived cannot be eliminated.

    So, we have at least one Corded Ware R1b and that in Poland.
    Last edited by rms2; 06-24-2015 at 09:34 PM.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    Jean M, look at my consensus tree for the R1b early subclades.
    OK - so it is between R1b1 and R1b1a or R1b1c. So I put R1b1. Thank you.

    [Added] Up now on http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml
    Last edited by Jean M; 06-24-2015 at 09:42 PM.

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