Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: Analysis of over 2,000 HVR1 profiles From SouthWest Asia

  1. #1
    Banned
    Posts
    1,280
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Celt/German/Iberian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b2a2b1

    Germany Imperial United Kingdom Norway Spain

    Analysis of over 2,000 HVR1 profiles From SouthWest Asia

    I got the HVR1 data from Table S1. of the 2013 study Y-Chromosome and mtDNA Genetics Reveal Significant Contrasts in Affinities of Modern Middle Eastern Populations with European and African Populations”.

    I plan on doing this same-type of analysis with as many modern pops as possible. The online sources we have available, like Wikpedia, are pretty much useless.

    Here's the link to my analysis.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    I broke down the haplotypes as much as they possibly could be to understand the maternal gene pool of SouthWest Asia. Most of what I learned is self-explainable if you look at the haplogroup frequencies and the haplotypes. I don't see a need for a lengthy description. Later I will do more work on this.

    In terms of variation in SouthWest Asia: Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and Jordan are practically indistinguishable from each other. Yeman and Saudi Arabia are united in differences from those more northwestern countries. So the split in SouthWest Asia seems to be NorthWestern vs SouthEastern.

    Yeman and Saudi Arabia have more of the African haplogroup L(xM, N), especially Yeman with 38.3%. Yeman and Saudi Arabia have much less H and HV(xH), much more R0a(and more diversity in R0), J, and N1a1a. There's also a higher frequency and variety of M in Saudi Arabia and Yeman.

    Because Neolithic Central Europeans were mostly of ancient West Asian decent(50-70% ENF) but separated by over 8,000 years from modern SouthWest Asians, I compared the two(not in documents or spreadsheets yet).

    It is quite obvious the two are not closely related maternally. Neolithic Central Europeans trace most of the maternal lineages to Stone age West Asian-East Mediterranean women, who's lineages didn't do well in SouthWest Asia.

    Here's my comparison of the two. I'll do a more formal comparison with a spreadsheet sometime in the future.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...innjUA94k/edit

    Overall IMO SouthWest Asians are very native to SouthWest Asia. There aren't signs in autosomal DNA of any significant gene flow from other regions into SouthWest Asia besides ANE. It's probably safe to assume most of their maternal lineages have been evolving in the broad region of the Middle East for 10,000s of years.

    "ENF" ancestry might be very old and very pre-Neolithic. ENF-rich people may have already had alot of regional(ethnic, etc.) mtDNA-diversity 9,000 years ago when Neolithic Central European's ENF ancestors left. This can explain why modern SouthWest Asian mtDNA is so differnt from EEF, and why they have so much diversity in "West Eurasian" haplogroups.

    A 2001 study found R0a1a and R0a2c in Upper Palaeolithic Morocoo dating to 10,000BC. It could very well be contamination. Although this is what I would expect.

    The package of "Near Eastern" lineages which arrived in Europe with farming, had been evolving in the Middle East for 1,000s of years before farming existed. They did not expand with farming like in Europe. So, I expect Middle Eastern hunter gatherers to display, T, J, R0, N1, etc.
    Last edited by Krefter; 04-16-2015 at 05:01 AM.

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Krefter For This Useful Post:

     dp (04-18-2015),  Helgenes50 (04-16-2015),  Kaido (04-16-2015),  Megalophias (04-16-2015),  parasar (04-16-2015),  Sein (04-16-2015),  Táltos (04-17-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,406
    Sex

    Can you locate a specific source for the Neolithic mtDNA lineages in the Yamnaya and Corded Ware?

  4. #3
    Banned
    Posts
    1,280
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Celt/German/Iberian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b2a2b1

    Germany Imperial United Kingdom Norway Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Can you locate a specific source for the Neolithic mtDNA lineages in the Yamnaya and Corded Ware?
    Maybe with samples from all over West Eurasia at better coverage a pattern related to where Yamna's ENF ancestors came from would pop up. It didn't come from anywhere near Hungary that's for sure. SouthWest Asians appear to be more related mtDNA wise to the ENF ancestors of Yamna than EEF is.

    Because of this we can exclude all of Europe to as far east As Croatia. So, I guess the Caucasus, Black sea area, and Central Asia. That would make sense considering the Teal-Georgian-Armenian-like ancestors of Yamna.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Krefter For This Useful Post:

     Generalissimo (04-16-2015),  Sein (04-16-2015)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,189
    Sex
    Location
    France
    Ethnicity
    Franchouillard
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2a2b2a1b1a2a1-S2808
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2a1

    Normandie Wallonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post

    .....
    Because Neolithic Central Europeans were mostly of ancient West Asian decent(50-70% ENF) but separated by over 8,000 years from modern SouthWest Asians, I compared the two(not in documents or spreadsheets yet).

    It is quite obvious the two are not closely related maternally. Neolithic Central Europeans trace most of the maternal lineages to Stone age West Asian-East Mediterranean women, who's lineages didn't do well in SouthWest Asia.

    .....
    Don't forget Stuttgart the prototype of ENF Early Neolithic Farmer is only 30% of SW Asian origin (Eurogenes K15 East Med 26.5% Red Sea 3.5%. The remaining part is mainly from European origin 47% West Med (Mesolithic of South Europe and partly in Norther Africa) due to the mixture of Near Easter migrants with local mesolithicsin Balkans and Danubian basun. The remaining 22% Atlantic is local in South Germany.

  7. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,406
    Sex

    Stuttgart is almost 100% Near Eastern.

    Of course, the Near East that Stuttgart's ancestors came from no longer exists, but it'll be interesting to see how some people cope with the idea that Neolithic farmers from the ancient northern Near East were more European-like than many present-day Europeans.

    I expect a long hangover and lots of vitriol on various forums, including this one. All we need is a single Neolithic genome from the Near East to get the ball rolling. Bring it on I say.

  8. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-16-2015),  dp (04-18-2015),  Jean M (04-16-2015),  Krefter (04-16-2015),  Sein (04-16-2015),  vettor (04-16-2015)

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    640
    Sex
    Location
    In the tent of Abu kadreh
    Ethnicity
    Kassitic acolyte
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1b1a1(J-PF7263)
    mtDNA (M)
    J2b1

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Stuttgart is almost 100% Near Eastern.

    Of course, the Near East that Stuttgart's ancestors came from no longer exists, but it'll be interesting to see how some people cope with the idea that Neolithic farmers from the ancient northern Near East were more European-like than many present-day Europeans.

    I expect a long hangover and lots of vitriol on various forums, including this one. All we need is a single Neolithic genome from the Near East to get the ball rolling. Bring it on I say.
    According to what? What would cause such a massive genetic over turn? Arent Stuttgart half whg? You'd think that if this is true some pockets of Stuttgart like groups would survive. Like the basques. Its more likely that european neolithics were a subset of neolithics. Than somehow neolithics in near east were smallowed by sea of south west asian arabs or other immigration or disappeared into a vacuum.
    Last edited by Arbogan; 04-16-2015 at 02:51 PM.

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,406
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbogan View Post
    According to what? What would cause such a massive genetic over turn? Arent Stuttgart half whg? You'd think that if this is true some pockets of Stuttgart like groups would survive. Like the basques. Its more likely that european neolithics were a subset of neolithics. Than somehow neolithics in near east were smallowed by sea of south west asian arabs or other immigration or dropped off the face of the earth.
    Some good questions there. I'm sure they'll be answered in time, when enough ancient genomes are sequenced.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-16-2015)

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    390
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Some good questions there. I'm sure they'll be answered in time, when enough ancient genomes are sequenced.
    Is it possible to try a PCA of West Eurasia (like the good-old ones) in order to see if some Neolithic farmers like Stuttgart can cluster close to NorthWest Africans? It wasn't possible with the K8 ones since I clustered with [ANE-admixed] Sephardi Jews. Isn't there a way to neutralize the non-Eurasian part of North Africans so it doesn't skew the results?
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Ignis90 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-16-2015)

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    640
    Sex
    Location
    In the tent of Abu kadreh
    Ethnicity
    Kassitic acolyte
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1b1a1(J-PF7263)
    mtDNA (M)
    J2b1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    Is it possible to try a PCA of West Eurasia (like the good-old ones) in order to see if some Neolithic farmers like Stuttgart can cluster close to NorthWest Africans? It wasn't possible with the K8 ones since I clustered with [ANE-admixed] Sephardi Jews. Isn't there a way to neutralize the non-Eurasian part of North Africans so it doesn't skew the results?
    If you took away the sub Saharan snp frequencies in north west africans. You'd be close to sardinians and hence stuttgart.

  15. #10
    Banned
    Posts
    1,280
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Celt/German/Iberian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b2a2b1

    Germany Imperial United Kingdom Norway Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbogan View Post
    According to what? What would cause such a massive genetic over turn? Arent Stuttgart half whg? You'd think that if this is true some pockets of Stuttgart like groups would survive. Like the basques. Its more likely that european neolithics were a subset of neolithics. Than somehow neolithics in near east were smallowed by sea of south west asian arabs or other immigration or disappeared into a vacuum.
    I think what he was saying is that WHG/UHG was very high in some parts of West Asia during the Neolithic and before, and ANE was absent. The fact Neolithic Europeans fit better as the non-ANE ancestors of modern West Asians than anyone around today is very telling. It probably means they're our best proxy of Neolithic west Asians.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-21-2020, 09:38 AM
  2. Multiple DNA profiles
    By Jerry Winn in forum General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-22-2020, 05:46 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-02-2018, 12:56 AM
  4. 3 million profiles with inferred DNA on wikitree
    By Earl Davis in forum General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-07-2017, 03:31 PM
  5. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-04-2015, 04:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •