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Thread: T2b subclades in NE Europe

  1. #1
    Member Little bit's Avatar
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    T2b subclades in NE Europe

    I see Polako posted a thread at Forumbiodiversity.com in regards to mtdna diversity of European Scythians:
    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...51#post1021451

    Basically, the mtdna diversity of 16 Don Scythians from a 2500-year-old burial ground near Rostov showed mtdna prevalence, in order: T, U5a, H, I, D, A, C, F, U2e, U7

    I don't post there and I'm guessing it's more ammo for the NE European/proto Indo-European link. I don't care about that argument, but I am curious about my Polish mother-in-law's and husband's mtdna:

    1) T2b7a1

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b7a1:
    HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 13768C 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16257- 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(31): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 13768C 14233G 14766T 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C (16296T)
    Flips(2): 16257T 16304G
    Extras(0): (16519C)
    Untested(3): 152 14905 16294

    Found one other T2b7a1, mtdna from extreme north of Scandinavia. One difference was found by comparing 23andme v-2 results, v-2 only snp i3001869, he is 146C and my husband/mother-in-law is 146T.
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=98

    Any other T2b's from NE Europe? Run this tool and let's compare:
    http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/
    DOD504
    M054852
    Interested in all things mtdna J, autism, and ADHD

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  3. #2
    Junior Member N21163's Avatar
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    T2b24 - T321C

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    Thanks for the link!

    My mtDNA analysis is consistent with FTDNA's placement of T2b24 - T321C

    Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

    HVR2: 73G 152Y 199C 263G (315.1C) 321C
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T 16296T 16304C (16519C)

    Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

    1) T2b24

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b24:
    HVR2: 73G 263G 321C
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b24 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 321C ⇨ T2b24 ⇨ 152Y 199C (315.1C) (16519C)

    Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
    Matches(32): 73G 263G 321C 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C
    Extras(2): 152Y 199C (315.1C) (16519C)

    I take it the 'extras" are possibly further subclades that are yet to be classified?

  4. #3
    Member Little bit's Avatar
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    I take it the 'extras" are possibly further subclades that are yet to be classified?
    Pretty much but it can get more complicated. I used to think that if you found enough people with the same mutations, you got yourself a new subclade but here's a good link in which Bill Hurst describes how new haplogroups are "born":
    http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/31/...oup-subclades/

    I ordered FTDNA's FMS for myself, on sale thru the end of today (4/22), and hope to submit my results to GenBank. Who knows, maybe they'll use my data to make a new one? Right now I'm a perfect match for an individual who's results define J1c3i but that's with my 23andme data. If I'm still a perfect match after getting my results, I guess it may mean we share a mitochondrial ancestress?
    DOD504
    M054852
    Interested in all things mtdna J, autism, and ADHD

  5. #4
    Junior Member N21163's Avatar
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    T2b24 - T321C

    Australia Romani UnitedKingdom Ireland EuropeanUnion
    Quote Originally Posted by Little bit View Post
    Pretty much but it can get more complicated. I used to think that if you found enough people with the same mutations, you got yourself a new subclade but here's a good link in which Bill Hurst describes how new haplogroups are "born":
    http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/31/...oup-subclades/

    I ordered FTDNA's FMS for myself, on sale thru the end of today (4/22), and hope to submit my results to GenBank. Who knows, maybe they'll use my data to make a new one? Right now I'm a perfect match for an individual who's results define J1c3i but that's with my 23andme data. If I'm still a perfect match after getting my results, I guess it may mean we share a mitochondrial ancestress?
    If you have an exact match at the coding region, I have heard that you are likely to have a common ancestor within the last 400 years...sounds promising for you at least

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  7. #5
    Junior Member ApplegateJ1's Avatar
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    Is there any T2b15 in Europe? It is my understanting that this subgroup is less than 500 years old.

  8. #6
    Junior Member N21163's Avatar
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    Hi ApplegateJ1,

    Can I ask where you found this information? Can you provide a link to the reference?

  9. #7
    Junior Member ApplegateJ1's Avatar
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    Hi N21163

    I took part in an T project at FTDNA here is a link to the paper http://www.jogg.info/62/files/Pike.pdf pubished Fall 2010 Journal of Genetic Genealogy. Six of us have the same genome and one of use is missing an insertion that is not used to define the subgroup. We have not been able to link our lines yet.

  10. #8
    Junior Member N21163's Avatar
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    T2b24 - T321C

    Australia Romani UnitedKingdom Ireland EuropeanUnion
    Thanks for the info...had seen the Pike article before.

    I'm listed as T2b8 (321C) in paper - I contacted David Pike and he affirmed my subclade is T2b24 (T321C) - same as what FTDNA gave me.
    Hopefully the six of you are able to link your lines soon!

    Cheers

  11. #9
    Junior Member CelticAlpine23's Avatar
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    T2b7a2

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    FTDNA E5182 Switzerland (Central Europe!) GEDmatch M115536 & FE5182

    mthap version 0.20beta21 (2013-07-08); haplogroup data version PhyloTree Build 15 (2012-09-30) +mods; using revised Cambridge Reference Sequence
    raw data source E5182-FASTA(2).fasta (16K

    FASTA format was uploaded. Based on the markers found, assuming the following regions were completely sequenced: HVR1 (16001~16569) HVR2 (1~574) CR (575~16000).

    Found 16569 markers at 16569 positions covering 100.0% of mtDNA.

    Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

    HVR2: 73G 263G (315.1C)
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1836G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16239T 16294T 16296T 16304C (16519C)

    Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

    1) T2b7a2

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b7a2:
    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1836G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16239T 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b7a2 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 9966A ⇨ T2b7 ⇨ 9180G ⇨ T2b7a ⇨ 1836G 16239T ⇨ T2b7a2 ⇨ (315.1C) (16519C)

    Perfect Match! Your results are an exact match to this haplogroup.
    Matches(35): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1836G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16239T 16294T (16296T) 16304C
    Extras(0): (315.1C) (16519C)

    2) T2b7a

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b7a:
    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b7a (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 9966A ⇨ T2b7 ⇨ 9180G ⇨ T2b7a ⇨ (315.1C) 1836G 16239T (16519C)

    Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
    Matches(33): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9180G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C
    Extras(2): (315.1C) 1836G 16239T (16519C)

    3) T2b7

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b7:
    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b7 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 9966A ⇨ T2b7 ⇨ (315.1C) 1836G 9180G 16239T (16519C)

    Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
    Matches(32): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 9966A 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C
    Extras(3): (315.1C) 1836G 9180G 16239T (16519C)

    Upload your data file for Haplogroup analysis:
    http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new
    mtDNA T2b7a2 (16126C, 16239T, 16294T, 16296T, 16304C, 16519C 73G, 263G, 315.1C) Rosa Fankhauser, b. 1893 - Switzerland
    Y-DNA R1b-U152+ Z36+ (Positive SNPs: L11, L150, L23, L51, M207, M269, P25, P312, U152, Z36) Jakob Schär, b. 1754 - Switzerland
    https://soundcloud.com/rumba_africana_soukous

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  13. #10
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    GEDMATCH No: m735006

    Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 10535C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16304G (16519C)

    IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.

    Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

    1) T2b(T16296C)

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b(T16296C):
    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b(T16296C) (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 16296C ⇨ T2b(T16296C) ⇨ 10535C (16519C)

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(28): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16296C
    Flips(1): 16304G
    Extras(1): 10535C (16519C)
    Untested(2): 14905 16294

    2) T2b21

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b21:
    HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14836G 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b21 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 16296C ⇨ T2b(T16296C) ⇨ 152C 14836G ⇨ T2b21 ⇨ 10535C (16519C)

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(28): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C 16296C
    Flips(1): 16304G
    Extras(1): 10535C (16519C)
    Untested(4): 152 14836 14905 16294

    3) T2b

    Defining Markers for haplogroup T2b:
    HVR2: 73G 263G
    CR: 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
    HVR1: 16126C 16294T (16296T) 16304C

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2b (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 930A 5147A 16304C ⇨ T2b ⇨ 10535C (16519C)

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(27): 73G 263G 709A 750G 930A 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 5147A 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A 16126C
    Mismatches(0): (16296C)
    Flips(1): 16304G
    Extras(1): 10535C (16519C)
    Untested(2): 14905 16294

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