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Thread: Reconstruction and possibly a genetic analysis in the future of 4,000YBP Pole

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    See S. Higuchi et al., Influence of eye colors of Caucasians and Asians on suppression of melatonin secretion by light, American Journal of Physiology - Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology, vol. 292, no. 6 (June 2007), pp. R2352-R2356. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332164
    Chuckle. That experiment compared Europeans ("Caucasians") and Asians. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with eye color. For whatever bizarre reason, the authors simply defined "Caucasians" to be light-eyed (!) and Asians to be dark-eyed, then pretended that the difference in melatonin suppression between the two groups had something to do with eye color. The authors only grudgingly admit that the difference might also be due to "ethnicity"--i.e., any of the many other average genetic differences between Europeans and Asians.

    Shockingly, the authors did not even bother to tell us just where these "Caucasians" and Asians were really from. Scandinavia or Spain? Kamchatka or Cambodia?

    Given the fact that the authors tried to ascribe the observed difference to eye color, it is utterly inexcusable that they didn't even bother to tell us the subjects' eye color! ("Ten healthy Caucasian males with blue, green, or light brown irises (light-eyed Caucasians)...")

    That paper does bring up a point that we have discussed in this forum once or twice: The eye color and hair color that Europeans call brown, Africans and Asians call light; and the eye color and hair color that Africans and Asians call brown, Europeans call black. This crossover shows in the word brunet(te), which can mean either dark brown or black.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 04-16-2015 at 02:01 PM.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglecynn View Post
    It is pretty common in northern Europe too, majority of the people i know who have dark hair now had light hair in childhood. Just seems to persist much more often in northern Europe.
    In my family, on both my father's side and mother's, tow headed babies is the norm for those of us with dark hair. My family runs 2/3 dark brown and 1/3 red. My hair is very dark brown, but was blonde until 4 or so and then darkened. My son is 7 and his hair was white/blonde and is just now at a dirty blonde to very light brown.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    Given the fact that the authors tried to ascribe the observed difference to eye color, it is utterly inexcusable that they didn't even bother to tell us the subjects' eye color! ("Ten healthy Caucasian males with blue, green, or light brown irises (light-eyed Caucasians)...").
    Why not do a little research yourself then, because I certainly don't have the time right now. Brown eyes offer better protection against ultraviolent light? That might be a clue.

  6. #54
    You can make an argument that eye and hair colour mutations ORIGINALLY happened because of environmental factors. But I think for a very long time now, they have had very little to do with natural selection, unlike skin colour. Eye colour in Europe can very easily be explained by the amount of HG ancestry, which dates to at least 6,000 BP. Hair colour is somewhere in between I think. Not as rigid as eye colour, but not as easy to transform as skin colour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglecynn View Post
    It is pretty common in northern Europe too, majority of the people i know who have dark hair now had light hair in childhood. Just seems to persist much more often in northern Europe.
    It's a bit weird, but in North America people with lighter hair often have lighter eyes. But in a lot of parts of southern Europe, a lot of people have lighter hair with dark eyes. So there are instances of correlation between the two, and non-correlation, which leads me to believe that even the same hair colour might be accounted for by different mutations, and some populations might have both of those mutations. Austronesians for example have light hair, but that mutation is completely different that the one in Europe.
    Last edited by Augustus; 04-16-2015 at 05:51 PM.

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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus View Post
    Eye colour in Europe can very easily be explained by the amount of HG ancestry.
    Actually Mathieson et al 2015 concluded that there has been mild selection against blue eyes in Europe since the Mesolithic:

    The derived allele of rs12913832 at the HERC2/OCA2 locus is the primary determinant of blue eyes in Europeans, and may also contribute to light skin and hair pigmentation. Our analysis detects a genome-wide signal of selection at this locus, but instead of the signal being one of positive selection with a coefficient of 0.036 as in a previous study of ancient DNA in the eastern Europe steppe, our signal is of weakly negative selection. One possible explanation is local adaptation: that the allele is advantageous in the north and disadvantageous in the south of Europe. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that our data shows that an extreme north-south gradient in allele frequencies has been maintained in Europe for the last 8,000 years.
    http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/03/13/016477

    This paper is being discussed in the thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...n-of-Europeans

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  10. #56
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    Bronze age warior was estimated to be 1.70 high and his weight was estimated to be 72-76 kg. It's me, for a comparison (~193cm, ~90kg)


    He posessed haplogroup R1a1, predicted through his y-STR profile that is clearly R1a and somewhere downstream of M417>Z645, probably Z280 (but other options like Z282* or PF6155xM458 and even Z93 can't be excluded at this moment).
    I've received contradictory info on whether he is positive to SRY 1532.2 or not(unpopular, non-widely used upstream SNP) but haplotype is unmistakably R1a and he will be tested for much more Y-SNPs in the future.

    His pigmentation is a fantasy, allele for a pigmentation of hair, eyes and skin are to be tested soon. Coding region of mtDNAs from all burials will be tested as well.
    Last edited by Artmar; 05-03-2015 at 07:09 PM.

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artmar View Post


    Bronze age warior was estimated to be 1.70 high and his weight was estimated to be 72-76 kg. It's me, for a comparison (~193cm, ~90kg)


    He posessed haplogroup R1a1, predicted through his y-STR profile that is clearly R1a and somewhere downstream of M417>Z645, probably Z280 (but other options like Z282* or PF6155xM458 and even Z93 can't be excluded at this moment).
    I've received contradictory info on whether he is positive to SRY 1532.2 or not(unpopular, non-widely used upstream SNP) but haplotype is unmistakably R1a and he will be tested for much more Y-SNPs in the future.

    His pigmentation is a fantasy, allele for a pigmentation of hair, eyes and skin are to be tested soon. Coding region of mtDNAs from all burials will be tested as well.
    Thanks for the pic Artmar. He is a small fellow, but, I guess he was typical for the day.

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    Thanks for the pic Artmar. He is a small fellow, but, I guess he was typical for the day.
    Yes, his height is even slightly higher than typical. Rough living, undernourishment and several other conditions have certainly affected height of such person in a negative way. Who knows how high would be a contemporary guy who is genetically identical to this early Bronze Age man. Maybe just 1,80? Or even higher than me? That will rather remain unknown

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  16. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    Thanks for the pic Artmar. He is a small fellow, but, I guess he was typical for the day.
    He just looks very small against Artmar - at 193 cm.
    Avatar: 300 years of British history courtesy of LivingDNA
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: ? Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  18. #60
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    I added the mtDNA from the site to my ancient mtDNA package(link is in my signature). Every sample looks to be H except for one U5b. The H breaks down to: H1a3=1, H1ba=2, H6=1, unknown H=2.
    Last edited by Krefter; 05-03-2015 at 11:27 PM.

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