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Thread: Bell Beakers, Gimbutas and R1b

  1. #4301
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Actually one of the consistent Neolithic lineages is G2a2, albeit under different branches, most of which are rare today. One of the branches, G2-P303 became relatively successful across most of Europe, whether this spread happened during the neolithic or later, is yet to be confirmed. In terms of I2a2, it's specifically I2-M223 which has turned up across west and eastern Europe from the mesolithic and later periods.

    We haven't collected enough DNA from a single region to really support "bounceback" of any lineage like I2-M223, or J2. Rather, based on the modern distribution it doesn't look like either really bounced back. Post Neolithic, we see R1b swallowing a large swath of west-central Europe, R1a (xM458,xZ93) engulfing Eastern Europe during Corded Ware, and R1a-(M458)/I2-L621 moving into the Balkans quite a bit later.

    E-V13, J2, G2 are still found mostly in the Mediterranean region of Europe. Whether these are remnant lineages from the Neolithic or a a subset of these lineages (ie: J2), a late Bronze Age expansion like some papers would suggest, still needs more support.
    Im talking about SEE, not western Europe. So your point about E-V13 or J2 is irrelevant., as is your claims about "bounce back"., because I never used such a concept.
    Since the Bronze Age, there have been continual shifts in the Balkans, so your inferences on based on the modern DNA of a region you have little knowledge of is also irrelvant
    Then you claimed that the prevalence of R1b in SEE is 20%, and it came with IEs
    Still waiting for you in-depth sub-clade analysis because your personal opinion isn't something. I'd take verbatim.
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 09-12-2017 at 01:50 PM.

  2. #4302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Begin with when ? Actually, northern Europe was more populated in the Mesolithic.
    Which was more populated LBK or Starcevo ?
    Have you read about this ? Was it in Gimbutas' book that you rely on ?

    And it is you who is obfuscating, but you're just embarassed to admit that. We're comparing like with like at same point in time. My point was that the Balkans had a demographic decline, and when it did, the lands to its north were far more densely populated.
    We can also say southern Europe was more populated in the Roman Era, but thats hardly relevant to the topic at hand.





    Again, you're either lying, or just an't understand basic concepts.
    To repeat what I wrote: "And that's my point-as per above. It cannot be reduced to one lineage. It was a "package shift"."







    You taught german ? Big whoop. You're neither an academic nor a psychologist to tell me what I meant, you arrogant pleb.
    And your false accusations just show your character then, i guess. Not only are you a crap academic, but you're a hollow character.

    Because what I wrote is ]here

    RK had written :"I.e. large numbers of males from the horizon descended from a few kinship groups at most several tens of generations before sample deposition. This doesn't mean that there was some "urvolk" that was implicated since the beginning of a culture's expansion however. My bet is that as sampling gets denser we would see that this "flattening" is a result of social processes that occurred during the expansion itself and just after that, and not necessarily indicative of the situation at the cultural source."

    to which i wrote "Don't go ruining the urvolk fantasy, now"

    You obviously failed to understand what we were implying, just as you fail to understand virtually anything else.
    And the thing is my comment hit the nail on the head, that is why you're so triggered, because it goes against your dumbed-down pseudo-historic genetamology.

    Now not only are your accusation false, but you're badgering me. So I'll leave you to your thread where you you can whims away all you want, and don;t have to bother about the nuisance of up to date facts or data.
    Just wanted to quote what you wrote before you have the opportunity to edit the ad hominems out.

    Very nice.
    Last edited by rms2; 09-12-2017 at 02:16 PM.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36982 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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     George (09-12-2017)

  4. #4303
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Just wanted to quote what you wrote before you have the opportunity to edit the ad hominems out.
    And I stick by it
    I'm not the only one opine that about you
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 09-12-2017 at 02:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    And I stick by it
    I'm not the only one opine that about you
    It would be best if we all just stuck to "Bell Beakers, Gimbutas and R1b".
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36982 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982)

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    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    It would be best if we all just stuck to "Bell Beakers, Gimbutas and R1b".
    Fine
    Ill apologise if you take back your false accusation and Presumptive tone
    They're some serious charge you're throwing around

  7. #4306
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    Post deleted - I was a bit preachy and am no saint to be lecturing others
    Last edited by alan; 09-12-2017 at 06:36 PM.

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  9. #4307
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    You have been spoiling your valuable contributions with that temper of yours for years. You really let yourself down with those outbursts of person attacks. Cant you just take a breath and calm down before typing if something annoys you. Tit for tat escalating is not a virtue
    You're right actually
    It isn't worth it . My bad
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 09-12-2017 at 06:19 PM.

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  11. #4308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    "Annoys" ? Allegations of accusations of Nazism isn't annoying . It's deceit and attempted character assassination. It gets tiring dealing with dishonesty, double standards, down right chauvanism, and hypocrisy; coming from all levels- right up to admins and "published academics" whenever one doesn't parrot the Statis quo.

    So why don't you pull up RMS2 on his lies?
    Not worth leaving over a small spat. Your stuff is valuable and appreciated. We all have to bite our tongues sometimes for the sake of keeping the peace. And yes I would say Rich also lost his temper and got pesonal too. A number of people on this forum from time to time do that. I have got stung a lot so i just bite my tongue as tit for tat just makes these things turn into epic spats. You both don't like backing down. Nevertheless I look forward to both of your posts. Please do a digital hand shake and both apologise to each other for getting personal and this will all be history in seconds.

    It's

  12. #4309
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Of course, I know you know we have just one Balkan Yamnaya, from Bulgaria. I'm looking forward to some results from the Carpathian basin and the Tisza River valley, including from kurgans that predate Yamnaya. I'd also like to see some y-dna from the Pontic steppe in addition to what we already have from the Volga-Ural steppe and the Caspian steppe.

    I would also like to see some testing of all the regional variants of Corded Ware. Most of them remain completely untested.
    I'm curious why he uses terms like "overwhelmingly" to apply to a sample size of n =1. It's rather misleading.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: ? Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  14. #4310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    3) the Balkan Yamnaya might turn to be more diverse than the Caspian, haplotypically. Indeed, the Bulgarian Yamnaya individual was I2a2, the Smyadovo - Ezero culture individual with evidence of steppe admixture across the road from him was I2a2.
    However, you cannot state I2-M223 is a "Steppe" marker in itself, because it has been found in Neolithic Iberia and within a general European mesolithic context. Similarly we cannot say L51+ arose on the steppe, nor can we say L23+ is a mesolithic marker until it turns up in that period.

    I don't see where you're going with this. Some subclades under I2-M223 probably spread in the Bronze age with the R1b guys from the steppes. Do I need a formal paper to show this association?
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: ? Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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