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Thread: New SNP: ZZ10 father of CTS3386,MC14,Z253,Z255

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    New SNP: ZZ10 father of CTS3386,MC14,Z253,Z255

    Read on the yahoo group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...messages/25480

    Alex Williamson has discovered a new SNP, ZZ10, bringing in the same group, four sub-groups under DF13: CTS3386,MC14,Z253 and Z255
    Perhaps also some DF13 * but negative for: CTS3386,MC14,Z253,Z255, can be ZZ10+

    However, ZZ10 is maybe not 100% reliable because, apparently, its position on the P5 palindrome is not ideal...

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    Be interesting to see what Thomas Krahn would have to say about this SNP and it's position, his feedback is usually quite good when it comes to situations like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    Read on the yahoo group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...messages/25480

    Alex Williamson has discovered a new SNP, ZZ10, bringing in the same group, four sub-groups under DF13: CTS3386,MC14,Z253 and Z255
    Perhaps also some DF13 * but negative for: CTS3386,MC14,Z253,Z255, can be ZZ10+

    However, ZZ10 is maybe not 100% reliable because, apparently, its position on the P5 palindrome is not ideal...
    If it does turn out to be reliable enough that is really important. I have run into a couple which I suspected of being old in the S1051 group but they were culled by YSEQ. I left them in there just to see if they would turn up in others. The one kit matched another with a single old reliable SNP but didn't have the other 2 previous unreliable ones so that confirmed why YSEQ had culled them.

    George

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    This SNP needs further testing to show if it is consistent to see if this SNP marker as phylogenetically unreliable but if an it ties several DF13 subclades together and if this SNP is ancestral in all the other subclades under DF13 and it show its generally stable across those tied together subclades then it should be placed.

    MJost
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    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1’s father’s sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    I personally think this a great news and a great new discovery and quite possibly very significant. While I am L1066+ (as all know under Z253), other than my direct surname matches the next closest (but very distant) matches are all L159.2 guys (Z255+) and it seemed apparent there was an ancient connection. This is falling in line nicely with the hypothesis that Z255 represent the Laigin and Z253 a group associated with the Fir Bolg. I'd like to see some of the citizen scientists at least put this possibility on the table and start to see if other pieces of information begin to support this hypothesis. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to give much validity to the Nemedian story yet (I understand it has a lot of obvious myth to it), however the piece about them going back to the continent from Ireland and then returning again as the Fir Bolg, passing through Iberia as well (we know we have the Z253 Iberian connection), could explain some of the spread of Z253. I know this is pretty weak at this point but it is starting to get a bit more interesting in my opinion.

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    As the sole (known) R-ZZ10*, I hope that an equivalent in a more stable portion of the Y is eventually found.

    While it's tempting to try my luck with FullGenomes, I would have expected an SNP that unites two or more of CTS3386, MC14, Z253, and Z255 to have been found previously in their testing (unless only one of those clades has undergone Y Elite-levels of sequencing, which I doubt is the case at this point).

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    In case this is of interest to anyone that doesn't read the R-L21 Yahoo! group posts, another R-ZZ10* person (Allen - N3983) was found via Big Y testing a couple weeks ago.

    He's in R Subgroup d of the Allan FTDNA project.

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    ZZ10_1 and ZZ10_2 have been added to the Advanced SNP catalog at FTDNA, it's not (yet?) on their haplotree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swid View Post
    ZZ10_1 and ZZ10_2 have been added to the Advanced SNP catalog at FTDNA, it's not (yet?) on their haplotree.
    What is the difference between ZZ10_1 and ZZ10_2
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21+ DF13+ (L1335- DF21- DF49- FGC11134- L513- Z251- Z253- CTS1751- CTS3386- DF41- FGC5496- L371- MC14- S1026- S1051- S16264- Z16500- Z16502- Z255-)
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    ZZ10 is palindromic, so it exists in two locations on the Y (positions 19,791,668 and 20,388,112).

    I don't know yet how FTDNA will test ZZ10 (or the other palindromic SNPs recently added); while ZZ7, ZZ8, ZZ9 are all now on the FTDNA haplotree, but they're listed as ZZ7_1, ZZ8_1, and ZZ9_1 only.

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