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Thread: First Mesolithic ancient Y-DNA is I*, I2 and I2a1b*

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    So most of the Mesolithic Y-DNA lineages just died out. There are two obvious regions where this was not the case: the northeast and parts of the southeast (Middle Danube and Dnieper-Donets.)
    Y IN CZECHS
    I-M170 age 4.58 - 2.30ky
    I1-M253 age 2.03 - 1.25ky
    I2a-P37 age 1.94 - 1.17ky
    I2b1-M22 age 2.38 - 1.47ky

    It seems that in the Danube Area, I2 came yesterday.
    Luca 2006-Y-Chromosomal Variation in the Czech Republic

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokousa View Post
    It seems that in the Danube Area, I2 came yesterday.
    Those figures are not the age. If you look down the table you will find the age given in generations. For example 534 generations for I-M170. If we take 30 years per generation, that would be about 16,000 years ago. In the text they say "Hg I-M170 as a whole emerges as the oldest, in line with its presence during or soon after the LGM (Rootsi et al., 2004)." (LGM = Last Glacial Maximum).

    But I wouldn't pay much attention anyway. They are assuming continuity of population, which is always a mistake, and this is an old paper. Things will get clearer when we have more ancient DNA from the Balkans.

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  4. #73
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    Geno 2.0: Irish Prime Minister is I-M223-CTS616

    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    When Genographic recently tested in Mayo, they found 88% R1b and 12% I, R1a.
    The Prime Minister (Taoiseach) Enda Kenny, a native of Mayo, results were I.
    Genographic attributed the R1a and I to later migrations eg Bronze Age or Viking.
    I suspect the I results are closer to the Megalithic Period as some of the oldest and largest Megalithic and Neolithic structures, Carrowmore and Ceide Fields are nearby.

    http://www.pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/genographic/

    Attachment 1087
    At the Genetic Genealogy Ireland 2014 Conference in Dublin last week, Spencer Wells announced that Enda Kenny is I-M223-CTS616.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    I make the assumption that Mr Kenney is L1193>Y5996; Grogan and Kilcoyne would be surnames from the vicinity of Mr Kenny's ancestral abode in Islandeady, Co Mayo but the existence of a McKinney, Griffin and Lane in Roots Group 2a1 gives pause for thought but I think is much less likely.

    I had previously expressed an opinion on this forum that Mr Kenny was more likely to be I-L161-Isles.

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  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokousa View Post
    Y IN CZECHS
    I-M170 age 4.58 - 2.30ky
    I1-M253 age 2.03 - 1.25ky
    I2a-P37 age 1.94 - 1.17ky
    I2b1-M22 age 2.38 - 1.47ky

    It seems that in the Danube Area, I2 came yesterday.
    Luca 2006-Y-Chromosomal Variation in the Czech Republic
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/14...comms6257.html

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  8. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Genetiker has attempted to glean the Y of the Swede samples.


    http://genetiker.wordpress.com/
    How is it possible that ancient Scandinavian farmers such as Gokhem 4 is I2 and Ajvide 58 is I2a1? According to Razhib Khan's Plows of the Gods, "With the large genetic distance, as well as the fact that the hunter-gatherers exhibited minimal gene flow from the farmers, and, likely a very salient physical difference, it seems plausible that we have the ingredients for inter-group conflict or at least an uneasy coexistence." He also says the F st between Gokhem farmers and Ajvide hunter gatherers was on the order of 0.05. So how can such different groups share the same I2 haplogroup?
    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/plows-of-the...ws-of-the-gods

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  10. #76
    I have reanalyzed the Y-SNPs of seven samples from Stone Age Sweden.

    Stora Förvar 11, the Mesolithic hunter-gatherer from 7,500 years ago, belonged to I1 or pre-I1.

    More Y-SNP calls from Stone Age Sweden

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  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by genetiker View Post
    I have reanalyzed the Y-SNPs of seven samples from Stone Age Sweden.

    Stora Förvar 11, the Mesolithic hunter-gatherer from 7,500 years ago, belonged to I1 or pre-I1.

    More Y-SNP calls from Stone Age Sweden
    Wow, awesome job geneticker!!!! I don't know why no one else looks like SNPs like you do. So far I1 has been found in Neolithic Hungary, Mesolithic Sweden, and Late Neolithic/Bronze age Sweden/Denmark. The one from Hungary may have also been pre-I1(Uncle to modern I1 not father), while the Late Neolithic/Bronze age ones were certainly direct ancestors of modern I1.

    EDIT: You make a good point about R1b. J2, E1b-M78, and I1 are three lineages we never expected to see in Neolithic/Mesolithic Europe. So, why couldn't the ancestor of R1b-L11 be there? I dis agree but don't deny we don't have enough Y DNA samples to say it's fact R1b-L11 is from East Europe.
    Last edited by Krefter; 08-16-2015 at 08:40 AM.

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  14. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by genetiker View Post
    I have reanalyzed the Y-SNPs of seven samples from Stone Age Sweden.

    Stora Förvar 11, the Mesolithic hunter-gatherer from 7,500 years ago, belonged to I1 or pre-I1.

    More Y-SNP calls from Stone Age Sweden
    Well done on your efforts. But one might question your conclusions . Even if that SF sample was indeed I1, the fact remains that all other SHG samples are I2. Thus, by the EBA, there was a significant replacement from I2 to R1a, R1b and I1. The latter still possbly came from the Carpathian basin, even if earlier "pre-I1" existed in scandinavia.

    Just a thought, not really a massive critique

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Well done on your efforts. But one might question your conclusions . Even if that SF sample was indeed I1, the fact remains that all other SHG samples are I2. Thus, by the EBA, there was a significant replacement from I2 to R1a, R1b and I1. The latter still possbly came from the Carpathian basin, even if earlier "pre-I1" existed in scandinavia.

    Just a thought, not really a massive critique
    Sf11 is an uncle not a father to modern I1.
    Last edited by Krefter; 08-16-2015 at 09:04 AM.

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    And what are the thoughts of movement(migration) of ancient I1, pre I1 and when and where it split from M170?

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