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Thread: DF21 (L21>DF13>DF21) and Subclades (DF5/S191, P314.2, S190, etc)

  1. #1
    Member Griff's Avatar
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    DF21 (L21>DF13>DF21) and Subclades (DF5/S191, P314.2, S190, etc)

    I am hoping that whenever and if ever an allele downstream from the above terminus is found, the exciting news will be found here.

    Thank you.

    "Griff"
    Last edited by Mikewww; 06-18-2013 at 09:50 PM. Reason: DF21 has expanded so this generalizes the thread a little more explicitly
    Douglas Griffeth
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1+
    DF21+, DF5+, L1446+, L1447+, L21+, P312+, Z248+, CTS3655-, DF49-, L10-, L130-, L144-, L1448-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U152-

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     David (08-22-2012)

  3. #2
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    We've come a long way in just one year. As of 21 August, there are 172 DF21+ project members with Y-STR results. 111 (65%) have (or will have shortly) results for the Y111 test and 49 (28%) have results for the Y67 test. There are 12 (7%) Y37 results; about half of the 12 have a close relative in the project that has higher resolution test results.

    There 24 SNPs under R-DF21, including three under investigation and seven private. Eight completed DF21+ WTYs, with a ninth in-progress!

    Regards,
    david



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     Gorm (08-23-2012)

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    Senior Member Rory Cain's Avatar
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    Greetings to my cousin Griff & my buddy David

    In addition to David's observations, we also have a good representation from several Irish clan groups traditionally descended from the Ciannachta, including the Ely O'Carroll group and their kinfolk who fared north as mercenaries, the Airghialla. Part of the Airghialla also used the name Clan Colla. It also appears that despite the fabricated pedigrees attaching the (DF21+) Ciannachta to the (L226+) Dal gCas and the (Irish Type 2) Eoghanachta, that the Ciannachta were in fact akin to the Ossraige (Ossory) and Ui Baircche (Brigantes). In Ossory (Co Kilkenny & west Co Laois) the DF21+ tribes appear to have held their ground against L159.2, L144, Z253 and Irish Type 2 neighbours.

    Not sure where that places our Galway-north Wales O'Cathain & Griffeth group, Griff. We seem to match the locations of the Gangani, who some historians would link with the Brigantes. Further DF21+ & DF5+ results from west Ireland & north Wales may provide further pointers. Historians believe the Gangani settled in Ireland & from the established a colony in north Wales. Maybe. I have not seen enough evidence yet to write off the other possibility, of the Gangani coming from north Wales and establishing a colony in west Ireland. I always expected further DF21+ & DF5+ results from north Wales. Sure enough, a guy I recruited, the Humphreys sample from the Llyn Peninsula (formerly the "Promontory of the Gangani") is DF21+, Z246+ and his (incomplete) Y111 already has three of the four key off-modals for DF5. So 21-246-119-B (Griffeth, etc) are no longer alone as Welsh DF5+. You guys may even be the parent stock of my group in Co Galway although it seems we parted company some time about the Roman occupation of Britain.

    Rory

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     David (09-05-2012)

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    Member Griff's Avatar
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    Origins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    Greetings to my cousin Griff & my buddy David

    In addition to David's observations, we also have a good representation from several Irish clan groups traditionally descended from the Ciannachta, including the Ely O'Carroll group and their kinfolk who fared north as mercenaries, the Airghialla. Part of the Airghialla also used the name Clan Colla. It also appears that despite the fabricated pedigrees attaching the (DF21+) Ciannachta to the (L226+) Dal gCas and the (Irish Type 2) Eoghanachta, that the Ciannachta were in fact akin to the Ossraige (Ossory) and Ui Baircche (Brigantes). In Ossory (Co Kilkenny & west Co Laois) the DF21+ tribes appear to have held their ground against L159.2, L144, Z253 and Irish Type 2 neighbours.

    Not sure where that places our Galway-north Wales O'Cathain & Griffeth group, Griff. We seem to match the locations of the Gangani, who some historians would link with the Brigantes. Further DF21+ & DF5+ results from west Ireland & north Wales may provide further pointers. Historians believe the Gangani settled in Ireland & from the established a colony in north Wales. Maybe. I have not seen enough evidence yet to write off the other possibility, of the Gangani coming from north Wales and establishing a colony in west Ireland. I always expected further DF21+ & DF5+ results from north Wales. Sure enough, a guy I recruited, the Humphreys sample from the Llyn Peninsula (formerly the "Promontory of the Gangani") is DF21+, Z246+ and his (incomplete) Y111 already has three of the four key off-modals for DF5. So 21-246-119-B (Griffeth, etc) are no longer alone as Welsh DF5+. You guys may even be the parent stock of my group in Co Galway although it seems we parted company some time about the Roman occupation of Britain.

    Rory
    Nice to know you've joined this blog, Rory - welcome!

    I'm happy that you've reproduced our possible tribal history here in this blog. You've had to replicate it at least twice before on other blogs. This one seems to be where the pros hang out.

    Happy news re Humphreys! Thanks for sharing that. My cousin Bill Griffeth (our fathers were brothers) is about to join the 111-marker/Family Finder group on FTDNA. His results should be forthcoming anytime now. He and I joined his brother and their respective wives in a week-long tour of cemeteries in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska a month ago. It's great to be retired, as long as the money holds out.

    I am interested to read any responses to your post re the early origins of our DF5 families. You certainly have provided a springboard for such a conversation.

    Cheers, and again, welcome!
    Griff
    Douglas Griffeth
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1+
    DF21+, DF5+, L1446+, L1447+, L21+, P312+, Z248+, CTS3655-, DF49-, L10-, L130-, L144-, L1448-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U152-

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     David (09-05-2012)

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    Member Griff's Avatar
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    Dave, could you please check Kit No. 249295? It's my cousin, William Curtis Griffeth. He says he has results. Thanks!

    -Griff
    Douglas Griffeth
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1+
    DF21+, DF5+, L1446+, L1447+, L21+, P312+, Z248+, CTS3655-, DF49-, L10-, L130-, L144-, L1448-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U152-

  10. #6
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Dave, could you please check Kit No. 249295? It's my cousin, William Curtis Griffeth. He says he has results. Thanks!

    -Griff
    Griff, he hasn't joined the DF21 project yet, so I have no visibility to his kit or results. Please ask him to use this join link:
    http://www.familytreedna.com/group-j...21&code=Y76804

    Regards,
    david

  11. #7
    Member Griff's Avatar
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    Bill just gave me his password, so I went in and joined him up to the DF21 project. Now you should be able to keep track of him.

    Thanks!
    -Griff
    Last edited by Griff; 09-05-2012 at 02:06 PM. Reason: New information
    Douglas Griffeth
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1+
    DF21+, DF5+, L1446+, L1447+, L21+, P312+, Z248+, CTS3655-, DF49-, L10-, L130-, L144-, L1448-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U152-

  12. #8
    Senior Member David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Bill just gave me his password, so I went in and joined him up to the DF21 project. Now you should be able to keep track of him.

    Thanks!
    -Griff
    OK, he's in, and once his YSTR results start coming in, he will be visible in the project listings.

    --david

  13. #9
    Member Griff's Avatar
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    When I look for him as a match on my own FTDNA, he shows up currently as "private" but a perfect 67/67 match (so far - he is being tested up to the 111 level, plus Family Finder.
    Douglas Griffeth
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1+
    DF21+, DF5+, L1446+, L1447+, L21+, P312+, Z248+, CTS3655-, DF49-, L10-, L130-, L144-, L1448-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P314.2-, P66-, U152-

  14. #10
    Senior Member Rory Cain's Avatar
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    David, I don't see Griff's cousin Bill Griffeth listed at all in the R-DF21 & Clades project. Griff's observation that Bill shows only as "private" on Griff's own FTDNA account matches rings an alarm bell. Some thing happened with a guy in my project who I paid for in 2006, yet in 2011 he suddenly went "private". I knew it wasn't the guys own doing. Something at FTDNA defaulted after one of their upgrades. Same thing happened for a new member. My brother, if I recall. He's no "privacy freak" either.

    I suspect the settings for Griff's cousin Bill also defaulted to private. Griff, as you have Bill's password, you may have to log in and search for Bill's privacy setting. FTDNA ain't making this stuff any easier to find or operate, so good luck with that. David as project admin will be blocked from making the change, as I was with a kit that I damn well paid for!

    BTW, good work recruiting another member of our 21-246-119 group.

    Rory

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