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Thread: #paleoamericanodyssey tweets on 24,000-year old Mal'ta Siberian

  1. #1
    J Man
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    #paleoamericanodyssey tweets on 24,000-year old Mal'ta Siberian

    This looks quite interesting!...I do not have Twitter but others can check this out in full I suppose if you have it.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2013/10/...-on-24000.html

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     Anglecynn (10-21-2013)

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    My goodness! Eske Willerslev’s ancient DNA analysis of men from the Mal’ta and Afontova Gora cultures (20,000+ BC) of Siberia caused astonishment: Y-DNA R and mtDNA U.

    http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudie...y-discussions/

    There will be a paper in Nature.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-19-2013 at 07:06 PM.

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     Anglecynn (10-21-2013),  jeanL (10-19-2013),  R.Rocca (10-19-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    My goodness! Eske Willerslevís ancient DNA analysis of men from the Malíta and Afontova Gora cultures (20,000+ BC) of Siberia caused astonishment: Y-DNA R and mtDNA U.

    http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudie...y-discussions/

    There will be a paper in Nature.
    Holy crap!!! That's crazy, I wonder if that's R-M207(xM173) or if it simply R-M207+. In any case that combination of Y-DNA R + mt-DNA U is freaky!!!!

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    My goodness! Eske Willerslev’s ancient DNA analysis of men from the Mal’ta and Afontova Gora cultures (20,000+ BC) of Siberia caused astonishment: Y-DNA R and mtDNA U.

    http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudie...y-discussions/

    There will be a paper in Nature.
    Has this been confirmed?

    Nice map and artifacts of Afontova Gora and Mal'ta Cultures: http://donsmaps.com/afontovagora.html
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 10-19-2013 at 07:58 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  7. #5
    You should know German Dziebel:

    A couple of wins for out-of-America: Schurr acknowledged that it’s indeed puzzling that the so-called oldest human lineages such as mtDNA L and Y-DNA A and B are not found outside of Africa. They haven’t popped up in either ancient remains (all most ancient mtDNA samples belong to the most downstream macrohaplogroup, according to the current phylogenies) or at small frequencies in marginal populations of the Sahul or East Asia. If populations outside of Africa migrated from Africa, how come they do not carry with them any of the African genetic signatures? He also believes that there’s enough genetic evidence right now to talk about a back migration from the New World at the end of the Ice Age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Has this been confirmed?
    I wasn't at the conference. So all I know comes from German Dziebel, who presented a paper there. He posted about it at the link I gave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    If populations outside of Africa migrated from Africa, how come they do not carry with them any of the African genetic signatures?
    They carry haplogroups that descend from the ones in Africa. We know this because geneticists have constructed a phylogenetic tree. At the root of it is A.

    Let's not digress yet again into that topic. I can't help it that my source for the conference papers happened to be German Dziebel.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-19-2013 at 08:38 PM.

  11. #8
    We did know U2 from Kostenki, but R (which subclade?) 24,000 YBP is a good news.

  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    They carry haplogroups that descend from the ones in Africa. We know this because geneticists have constructed a phylogenetic tree. At the root of it is A.

    Let's not digress yet again into that topic. I can't help it that my source for the conference papers happened to be German Dziebel.
    Those words are of Dziebel, of course, not mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Those words are of Dziebel, of course, not mine.
    Dziebel's quote is puzzling. When ancient DNA from outside of Africa is reported, they don't report every mutation back to A, they simply report the most downstream mutation. Its not like the Tarim mummies carried R1a but nothing upstream of it. So in effect, we can infer that the earliest branch of 'A' are in every ancient DNA found to date. His argument would only be validated if only "A" with everything ancestral below it were to be found somewhere in Siberia.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 10-20-2013 at 12:40 AM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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