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Thread: Abstracts from Human Evolution 2017 conference

  1. #111
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    Was there a link to see all the abstracts in one go?

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    what about east siiclians ?
    Italian_EastSicilian
    "Anatolia_BA" 55.85
    "Corded_Ware_Germany" 22.55
    "Greece_LN" 12.05
    "Jordan_EBA:I1730" 6.55
    "Villabruna:I9030" 1.8

    Similar.
    BTW, CWC just stands for generic Bronze Age steppe input, I only used it and not yamnaya or BB, for simplicity

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  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    The really interesting area is the inland/central parts of the island where you have quite high Afroasiatic ancestry.
    Could you elaborate on what you mean by AA ancestry in Sicily? Is it the Natufian component or is it paternal lineages that are usually found in the AA heartlands (M81,V65,V12 etc) ?

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  7. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Italian_EastSicilian
    "Anatolia_BA" 55.85
    "Corded_Ware_Germany" 22.55
    "Greece_LN" 12.05
    "Jordan_EBA:I1730" 6.55
    "Villabruna:I9030" 1.8

    Similar.
    BTW, CWC just stands for generic Bronze Age steppe input, I only used it and not yamnaya or BB, for simplicity
    Interesting that Mycenaean does not come up at all. How do you explain that? Especially since that East Sicilian sample is likely to be from Syracuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Could you elaborate on what you mean by AA ancestry in Sicily? Is it the Natufian component or is it paternal lineages that are usually found in the AA heartlands (M81,V65,V12 etc) ?
    A Levant-centered genetic component that has been found in many peer-reviewed studies. This is from the study on Guanches, here such a component is the green one (higher in Trapani (west Sicily) than in Syracuse (east Sicily)):




    And in Sarno et al 2017, it is the red "Near Eastern" component. As you can see it is almost nonexistent in Albania and mainland Greece, but is present also in Crete.


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  9. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Both fits are nonsensical, regardless of the outgroups. Even the authors' model (which is pretty awful) is more convincing than this.
    It's valid, given the outgroups. I never said it's historically accurate. I believe I said when I originally posted it 'I know nothing of the history of Jewish peoples, I just like numbers'. If it's bogus suggest some better sources, taking a dump fixes nothing.

    Someone else suggested using Lebanese_Christians instead of Druze + Bedouin. Upon first glance Lebanese Christians and Druze appear pretty much identical, when plugged in they simply replaced Druze without much other change.

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  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poldo View Post
    Was there a link to see all the abstracts in one go?
    They were posted sequentially on the first "page" of this discussion, but since #14 I don't believe any other paper from the conference has been discussed at all. I keep checking, and it's been a ten-page (100 comment) excursus on one paper. The conference itself is nominally about human evolution -- not the similarities, distinctions, and relationships with neighbors among the world's Jewish populations. A topic of obvious interest, that's not actually mentioned in the thread caption.

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  13. #117
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    aschenazi should be close to the east- sicilian nmonte results
    that graveto-danubian posted rather than the west Sicilian
    or maybe they score also iran- chl
    graveto -danubian kudos can you please post aschenazi nmonte ?
    i wonder if they score a greek element {neolithic greece or mycenaean}?
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    1 Druze + Lithuanian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians @ 0.000000 Hidden Content Hidden Content

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  15. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by K33 View Post
    Khazars detected...

    Srs though, have any academics tried to fit estimates for Khazar ancestry in serious models for Ashkenazim? Obv the "Khazar Hypothesis" is BS but IMO that doesn't necessarily discount the possibility of (say) a 5% residue of Khazar ancestry-- particularly in Russian Jews.

    I understand ~5% of Ashkenazi males belong to y-dna Q, but I've never been able to find what subclade? Is it a Turkic branch or no?
    Here's something to check out:

    Abstract: The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish population derives its ancestry from a combination of sources tracing to both Europe and the Middle East. It has been claimed, however, through a reanalysis of some of our data, that a large part of the ancestry of the Ashkenazi population originates with the Khazars, a Turkic-speaking group that lived to the north of the Caucasus region ~1,000 years ago. Because the Khazar population has left no obvious modern descendants that could enable a clear test for a contribution to Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, the Khazar hypothesis has been difficult to examine using genetics. Furthermore, because only limited genetic data have been available from the Caucasus region, and because these data have been concentrated in populations that are genetically close to populations from the Middle East, the attribution of any signal of Ashkenazi-Caucasus genetic similarity to Khazar ancestry rather than shared ancestral Middle Eastern ancestry has been problematic. Here, through integration of genotypes on newly collected samples with data from several of our past studies, we have assembled the largest data set available to date for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins. This data set contains genome-wide single-nucleotide polymorphisms in 1,774 samples from 106 Jewish and non-Jewish populations that span the possible regions of potential Ashkenazi ancestry: Europe, the Middle East, and the region historically associated with the Khazar Khaganate. The data set includes 261 samples from 15 populations from the Caucasus region and the region directly to its north, samples that have not previously been included alongside Ashkenazi Jewish samples in genomic studies. Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population genetic structure, we find that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations, and among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews with populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly with the populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.
    No Evidence from Genome-Wide Data of a Khazar Origin for the Ashkenazi Jews

    Also:

    Abstract: The view that some or all of the Khazars, a central Asian people, converted to Judaism at some point during the ninth or tenth century is widely accepted. A careful examination of the sources, however, shows that some of them are pseudepigraphic, and the rest are of questionable reliability. Many of the most reliable contemporary texts that mention Khazars say nothing about their conversion, nor is there any archaeological evidence for it. This leads to the conclusion that such a conversion never took place.
    Did the Khazars Convert to Judaism?

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  17. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    I get nMonte results which might agree with what you're suggesting (not that I place too much faith in using it for moderns based on a unequally distributed anceitn data set)

    Still, it is interesting:

    Greek

    "Mycenaean" 40.9
    "Corded_Ware_Germany" 32.7
    "Greece_LN" 21.95
    "Armenia_EBA:I1633" 1.75
    "Hungary_CA:I1497" 1.2


    30% post-BA northern admixture, Bronze Age Mycenenan predominance, and some 'old Greek neolithic' surviving (~ 20%) . Not picking up any Levantine there.


    Italian_Tuscan
    "Corded_Ware_Germany" 43.8
    "Greece_LN" 43.75
    "Mycenaean" 7.9
    "Jordan_EBA:I1730" 2.8
    "Iran_Chalcolithic:I1665" 1.7

    Get some completely different directions for Sicilians. :

    Italian_WestSicilian
    "Anatolia_BA" 50.45
    "Corded_Ware_Germany" 28.85
    "Greece_LN" 10.8
    "Jordan_EBA:I1730" 7.6
    "Villabruna:I9030" 1.9


    (For this I used weighted data, and removed Latvia_HG which consumes moderns)
    i found dstats you did long ago
    this the period of 3000bc on-wards
    do you think it is still relevant it was before the greek neolithic and Mycenaean genomes were found
    ?


    To closer history:
    'K3000BC'


    Ashkenazi_Jew
    "Iran_Chalcolithic" 21.5
    "LBK-EN" 20.80
    "Levant_Neolithic" 17.1
    "Armenia_EBA" 15.9
    "Sintashta" 14.1 bronze age steppe ancestery ?
    "Jordan_EBA" 7.2
    "Ulchi" 3.4
    "Israel_Natufian" 0
    "Satsurblia" 0
    Dist=0.005

    kind regards
    adam
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    1 Druze + Lithuanian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians @ 0.000000 Hidden Content Hidden Content

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  19. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    i found dstats you did long ago
    this the period of 3000bc on-wards
    do you think it is still relevant it was before the greek neolithic and Mycenaean genomes were found
    ?


    To closer history:
    'K3000BC'


    Ashkenazi_Jew
    "Iran_Chalcolithic" 21.5
    "LBK-EN" 20.80
    "Levant_Neolithic" 17.1
    "Armenia_EBA" 15.9
    "Sintashta" 14.1 bronze age steppe ancestery ?
    "Jordan_EBA" 7.2
    "Ulchi" 3.4
    "Israel_Natufian" 0
    "Satsurblia" 0
    Dist=0.005

    kind regards
    adam
    3.4% Ulchi? That's a bit much. It happens when you are modeling high quality samples with low quality references. Depending on your columns this will really mess with other populations as well. Usually results in an overinflation of relatively undrifted populations like Armenia_EBA and Iran_Chalcolithic. I use kind of a crude workaround (using negative percentages of Yoruba) but it seems to work nicely.

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