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Thread: Eurogenes Northern_Europe PCA

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  1. #1
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    Eurogenes Northern_Europe PCA

    For a description of this PCA/calculator see:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...ore-to-be.html
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...re-across.html

    I prepared a heatmap of the 10 coordinates of the averaged scores.
    Y-axis: labels ordered by dendrogram
    X-axis: coordinates ordered by dendrogram.
    heatmap.jpg


    Nearly all of the variance is found on PC1-PC4.
    Note that the dendrogram of the coordinates can be rotated so as to make PC4 adjacent to PC3.

    The coordinates of my sample are:
    0.0282,0.0048,-0.0002,-0.0005,0.0075,-0.0046,0.0023,-0.0017,-0.0014,0.0054

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    For a description of this PCA/calculator see:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...ore-to-be.html
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...re-across.html

    I prepared a heatmap of the 10 coordinates of the averaged scores.
    Y-axis: labels ordered by dendrogram
    X-axis: coordinates ordered by dendrogram.
    heatmap.jpg


    Nearly all of the variance is found on PC1-PC4.
    Note that the dendrogram of the coordinates can be rotated so as to make PC4 adjacent to PC3.

    The coordinates of my sample are:
    0.0282,0.0048,-0.0002,-0.0005,0.0075,-0.0046,0.0023,-0.0017,-0.0014,0.0054
    I am not sure if I am reading your map correctly but it seems to indicate that the modern English are more closely related to the "English" of the Roman and Iron Age periods than they are to the Anglo-Saxon English. If this is an incorrect interpretation, I apologize.

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinduffy View Post
    I am not sure if I am reading your map correctly but it seems to indicate that the modern English are more closely related to the "English" of the Roman and Iron Age periods than they are to the Anglo-Saxon English. If this is an incorrect interpretation, I apologize.
    Yes, that is what the dendrogram suggests.
    I am not sure how to do statistics on these scores. nMonte does not seem very useful, because all these populations are closely related.
    But I remember that recent publications used formulations like 'Anglo-Saxon admixture explains only 1/3 of modern English DNA'. That is consistent with this heatmap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinduffy View Post
    I am not sure if I am reading your map correctly but it seems to indicate that the modern English are more closely related to the "English" of the Roman and Iron Age periods than they are to the Anglo-Saxon English. If this is an incorrect interpretation, I apologize.
    Simply put the English are watered down Celts, they are Germanic in culture and language, but this doesn't seem to be the case genetically.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Simply put the English are watered down Celts, they are Germanic in culture and language, but this doesn't seem to be the case genetically.
    Do you think for Kent or East-Anglia it's also the case?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    Do you think for Kent or East-Anglia it's also the case?
    Yes: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408

    "the East England samples are consistent with 38% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average, with a large spread from 25 to 50%, and the Welsh and Scottish samples are consistent with 30% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average, again with a large spread (Supplementary Table 4). These numbers are lower on average if we exclude the low-coverage individual HS3 from the Anglo-Saxon group (35% for East English samples). A similar result is obtained when we analyse modern British samples from the 1,000 Genomes Project, which exhibit a strong substructure (Supplementary Note 4, Supplementary Fig. 4). We find that samples from Kent show a similar Anglo-Saxon component of 37% when compared against Finnish and Spanish outgroups, with a lower value for samples from Cornwall (Supplementary Fig. 5a, Supplementary Table 4)."

    That's one study on it.

    When the Anglo-Saxons and other Germanics came they did not push the Britons out, those people were probably numerous and they didn't vanish entirely - looks like the populations blended together.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Yes: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408

    "the East England samples are consistent with 38% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average, with a large spread from 25 to 50%, and the Welsh and Scottish samples are consistent with 30% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average, again with a large spread (Supplementary Table 4). These numbers are lower on average if we exclude the low-coverage individual HS3 from the Anglo-Saxon group (35% for East English samples). A similar result is obtained when we analyse modern British samples from the 1,000 Genomes Project, which exhibit a strong substructure (Supplementary Note 4, Supplementary Fig. 4). We find that samples from Kent show a similar Anglo-Saxon component of 37% when compared against Finnish and Spanish outgroups, with a lower value for samples from Cornwall (Supplementary Fig. 5a, Supplementary Table 4)."

    That's one study on it.

    When the Anglo-Saxons and other Germanics came they did not push the Britons out, those people were probably numerous and they didn't vanish entirely - looks like the populations blended together.
    Remember I read many years ago paper which stated Anglo-Saxons made "Apartheid state" where Brito-Romans weren't allowed to mix with them. But it was based on haplogroups probably.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Simply put the English are watered down Celts, they are Germanic in culture and language, but this doesn't seem to be the case genetically.
    I wonder then about my clustering closest to Anglo Saxon England and Norwegian.
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  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    I wonder then about my clustering closest to Anglo Saxon England and Norwegian.
    This is just one test, you almost always show as overwhelmingly Celtic in other ones.
    Last edited by sktibo; 11-05-2017 at 09:18 PM.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    For a description of this PCA/calculator see:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...ore-to-be.html
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/10...re-across.html

    I prepared a heatmap of the 10 coordinates of the averaged scores.
    Y-axis: labels ordered by dendrogram
    X-axis: coordinates ordered by dendrogram.
    heatmap.jpg


    Nearly all of the variance is found on PC1-PC4.
    Note that the dendrogram of the coordinates can be rotated so as to make PC4 adjacent to PC3.

    The coordinates of my sample are:
    0.0282,0.0048,-0.0002,-0.0005,0.0075,-0.0046,0.0023,-0.0017,-0.0014,0.0054
    In what program you made it?
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