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Thread: Eurogenes Northern_Europe PCA

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Despite the similarities of Clusters 1 and 4, I really enjoy the fact that Huij kept them separate
    I am glad you liked the result. Actually it was not me who kept clusters 1 and 4 apart but the cluster analysis from #227. nMonte just followed these clusters.
    You should keep in mind though that clusters 1 and 4 are very close. This implicates that the percentages that are attributed to these clusters cannot be very accurately estimated.

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     randwulf (11-14-2017)

  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    I am glad you liked the result. Actually it was not me who kept clusters 1 and 4 apart but the cluster analysis from #227. nMonte just followed these clusters.
    You should keep in mind though that clusters 1 and 4 are very close. This implicates that the percentages that are attributed to these clusters cannot be very accurately estimated.
    To add, my family five properly "graded" from Cluster 1 through Cluster 4 in reasonable proportions given each of our paper ancestries. So, I liked and was impressed by it, too. My best results came from your cluster test and from the averages spreadsheet that I had created. Both produced nice models for all of my five.

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     sktibo (11-14-2017)

  5. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    He is a particularly interesting sample, I was very intrigued by the new 8 cluster results for him: no "Central Europe / German" cluster, (I think that's 2?) instead, heavy NW, with Western/French and Polish.
    The cluster analysis is weird.
    Md K16 pop: German, French East, French Northwest
    Eo K15: North German+North Italian+Spanish Aragon+Swedish
    Eo K13: North German+Norwegian+Southwest French+Tuscan
    Do V3: Central Italian+German+Portuguese+Swedish
    Do K12b: Mixed Germanic+Spanish Andalusia+Spanish Andalusia+Ukrainian
    Md K23b: Norwegian West+Sicilian Center+Spanish Aragon+Swedish
    Md K22: German South+Latvian+Sardinian+Swedish
    Ea K10: Icelandic+Icelandic+Sicilian+Spanish
    Ea K14: Hungarian+Lithuanian+Sicilian+Ukrainian

  6. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theconqueror View Post
    The cluster analysis is weird.
    What do you mean, the cluster analysis as shown in #227 or the analysis of your own sample?

  7. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    Your question was: 'Why didn't you prune?' I think I did answer your question.
    You did not answer my question what is so good about the classification of Tomenable. Neither did you explain what is the content your omniscient context.
    At least your clustering has given me a next hint that Nordic genes (your closer Sweden) came with the Saxons (Chauci/Hugas) to North Dutch territory, There they a tremendous genetic effect, more than 60% in Groningen, Friesland, North-Drenthe (see Olaide 2103) is related to this "subcluster". Insightful!
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

  8. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    What do you mean, the cluster analysis as shown in #227 or the analysis of your own sample?
    I understand that you were referring to CelticGerman. Attentive!
    I agree, the mixture of of the clusters 4, 1 and 3, with bypassing of cluster 2 (Germany, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia) is weird.
    A mixture of 60% clust4 and 40% clust2 seems more plausible. But in nMonte the distance is larger than in the 3 cluster result. Typically an example of overfitting.
    The lesson: always check the plausibility of the result.
    Last edited by Huijbregts; 11-14-2017 at 06:55 PM.

  9. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    I played "Where's Waldo?" with the above image for about 5 minutes on my old iPad before giving up. Now on my work computer monitor I can finally see it.

    Dad's result isn't too different, either:

    Attachment 19616

    I think he's a well-blended mix of Celtic and Germanic, and probably both his British Isles and German ancestry each gave him parts of both components. My best guess, anyway.



    If anyone want to put them on one of the plots, the coordinates for DewslothDad are 0.0236 0.0011 -0.0119 0.0045 0.001 -0.0014 0.0057 -0.0047 0.0029 0.003
    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    update heat map
    Attachment 19621

    bloggers and relatives
    Attachment 19622
    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    To add, my family five properly "graded" from Cluster 1 through Cluster 4 in reasonable proportions given each of our paper ancestries. So, I liked and was impressed by it, too. My best results came from your cluster test and from the averages spreadsheet that I had created. Both produced nice models for all of my five.
    Does our heat map cluster (French, the "French" Tollense/Welzin guys, my dad, Helgene's mom, etc) all still look like a cluster with your dad in this?
    R1b (aka M343) > M269 > L23 > L51 > L11 > P312 > DF19 > DF88 > FGC11833 > S4281 > S4268 > Z17112 (S17075-, L644-)

    Archaeological cousin: 6DRIF-23 of Driffield Terrace Roman Cemetery, York (Z17112+, S17075+, L644-)

    Known ancestors: Francis Cooke (I-M223/I2a2a) b. 1583; John Wing (U106) b. 1584; Richard Warren (M269Hidden Content ) b.c. 1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b. 1583; John Mead b.c. 1634 (I2a1/P37.2)

  10. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Does our heat map cluster still look like a cluster with your dad in this?
    I stopped updating the heat maps because they became too crowded.
    The heat maps suggested the existence of clusters. The 8 cluster compares the target with a mixture of 2 or more clusters; so this is different stuff. Moreover the 8 clusters is limited to modern populations.
    Most posters had a mixture of cluster 4 and cluster 1.
    However Dewsloth:dad is a mixture of 4 (NW-Eur) and 2 (Central_Eur)
    clust4, 64.1
    clust2, 35.9
    I don't know all the results by heart, but your mixture seems also present in CelticGerman.
    Last edited by Huijbregts; 11-14-2017 at 08:00 PM.

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  12. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    I am glad you liked the result. Actually it was not me who kept clusters 1 and 4 apart but the cluster analysis from #227. nMonte just followed these clusters.
    You should keep in mind though that clusters 1 and 4 are very close. This implicates that the percentages that are attributed to these clusters cannot be very accurately estimated.
    Just asking, isn't it possible to fuse west with a part of northwest to central west Europe and a part of northwest with sweden to northwest europe?
    My K36 indicates that possibility...but i don't know is this is a overall coherent possibility.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

  13. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    To add, my family five properly "graded" from Cluster 1 through Cluster 4 in reasonable proportions given each of our paper ancestries. So, I liked and was impressed by it, too. My best results came from your cluster test and from the averages spreadsheet that I had created. Both produced nice models for all of my five.
    I consider the fact that your FIL and myself have a similar paper trail and that we get similar results with the 8 cluster analysis to be a good indication. I thought it was strange that we got fairly different results on the original Northern Europe PCA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huijbregts View Post
    I stopped updating the heat maps because they became too crowded.
    The heat maps suggested the existence of clusters. The 8 cluster compares the target with a mixture of 2 or more clusters; so this is different stuff. Moreover the 8 clusters is limited to modern populations.
    Most posters had a mixture of cluster 4 and cluster 1.
    However Dewsloth:dad is a mixture of 4 (NW-Eur) and 2 (Central_Eur)
    clust4, 64.1
    clust2, 35.9
    I don't know all the results by heart, but your mixture seems also present in CelticGerman.
    I got this for Dewslothdad:

    dewslothdad

    clust1 94.75
    clust8 5.25

    Maybe I'm using different co-ordinates? I'll double check
    This is what I'm using: dewslothdad,0.0236,0.0011,-0.0119,0.0045
    Last edited by sktibo; 11-14-2017 at 09:27 PM.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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