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Thread: DF99 (P312>DF99)

  1. #191
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    Another DF99+ result this weekend. He has ancestry only to late 17th century Virginia, but presumably of English origin, though with a surname from a French personal name apparently introduced to England by the Normans. The surname is fairly widespread in England, though oddly seems to have its highest concentration in opposite ends of the country: Devon and Northumberland.

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  3. #192
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    Two new DF99 results have come in.

    The Norwegian, who believes his ancestor came to Norway as a Hugenot refugee in the 17C, tested negative.

    The other tested positive. He does not have ancestry beyond the USA, but has an English surname, which according to the British surname profiler, had its highest concentration in the east Midlands in the 1881 census.

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  5. #193
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    hello,

    I am also DF99+, my results just came in today. My STR values also match a Mer(c)kel, Miracle, Markel, among other variations, as well as a Long, who is a 67 match to a Fisher who is also DF99+. While my earliest known ancestor lived in Maryland, for all intents and purposes he may as well be considered Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch). I have come across several life events occurring at German Baptist churches, and many of his children migrated to parts of Pennsylvania for 2 to 3 generations

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  7. #194
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apmarkey View Post
    hello,

    I am also DF99+, my results just came in today. My STR values also match a Mer(c)kel, Miracle, Markel, among other variations, as well as a Long, who is a 67 match to a Fisher who is also DF99+. While my earliest known ancestor lived in Maryland, for all intents and purposes he may as well be considered Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch). I have come across several life events occurring at German Baptist churches, and many of his children migrated to parts of Pennsylvania for 2 to 3 generations
    There are a couple of more in that group who have DF99 tests pending. I have little doubt they all will test positive, although it is possible in R1b to have 67 marker matches between people of different subclades. Since some of this group are a GD of 6 at 67 markers to some of the others, I suspect their common ancestor lived in Germany some time prior to their coming to America.

  8. #195
    Senior Member Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    There are a couple of more in that group who have DF99 tests pending. I have little doubt they all will test positive, although it is possible in R1b to have 67 marker matches between people of different subclades. Since some of this group are a GD of 6 at 67 markers to some of the others, I suspect their common ancestor lived in Germany some time prior to their coming to America.
    I think I might disagree with you on this one. All of my 37 marker matches are Z220 confirmed or have the distinguishing markers indicating Z220. If your snp is at least 2000 years old then there is a very good chance you match your 37 marker matches outside the genealogical time frame. These are important clues.

  9. #196
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I think I might disagree with you on this one. All of my 37 marker matches are Z220 confirmed or have the distinguishing markers indicating Z220. If your snp is at least 2000 years old then there is a very good chance you match your 37 marker matches outside the genealogical time frame. These are important clues.
    I'm not certain which of my two assertions you are disagreeing with, but I suspect the first.

    1) It is possible in R1b to have a 67 marker match (by which I meant a GD of 8 or less at 67) with someone who is in a different R1b subclade. A number of people have reported this over the years.

    2) Since a number of people in this group have different surnames and a GD of 6 or 7 at 67 markers from the others, it is likely their last common ancestor lived in Germany before these families emigrated to America. I gather that the MRCA of two people who are a GD of 6 at 67 markers might have lived as much as 24 or more generations ago. It appears that the ancestors of this group came to America from Germany in the early 18th century. So while it may not be impossible, I think the odds are against everyone in this group being the descendant of a single emigrant who lived 300 years ago.

    EDIT: I have just checked on Ysearch, and one person in this group of DF99 Pennslyvania Dutch is a GD of 13 at 67 markers from one of the others, and a GD of 17 at 93 markers from another one.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 04-15-2014 at 07:05 PM.

  10. #197
    Senior Member Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    I'm not certain which of my two assertions you are disagreeing with, but I suspect the first.

    1) It is possible in R1b to have a 67 marker match (by which I meant a GD of 8 or less at 67) with someone who is in a different R1b subclade. A number of people have reported this over the years.

    2) Since a number of people in this group have different surnames and a GD of 6 or 7 at 67 markers from the others, it is likely their last common ancestor lived in Germany before these families emigrated to America. I gather that the MRCA of two people who are a GD of 6 at 67 markers might have lived as much as 24 or more generations ago. It appears that the ancestors of this group came to America from Germany in the early 18th century. So while it may not be impossible, I think the odds are against everyone in this group being the descendant of a single emigrant who lived 300 years ago.

    EDIT: I have just checked on Ysearch, and one person in this group of DF99 Pennslyvania Dutch is a GD of 13 at 67 markers from one of the others, and a GD of 17 at 93 markers from another one.
    Sorry I didn't clarify. I am disagreeing on the 67 marker match statement about having a GD of 6 or 7. I would imagine that if DF99 is greater than 2000 years old then most GD's up to 10 share a common ancestor at least back to 1000 A.D., give or take. I say this because, it would be worth it to contact those more distant matches to see if they would be willing to test for DF99. I am pretty passionate about this topic as the admin. for my surname project does not think anything outside the FTDNA calculated timeframe is useful. I have 22 matches at 37 markers with four different surnames. Again, they are all Z220. Two confirmed and the other two surnames have the three markers that typically defines this snp, and they are a 67 marker match with the second family. Wilder, Vander Hoeven, Robinson, and Holland. Robinson is not confirmed Z220, but matches me again at 67 with half of the 37 marker matched Wilder's. Holland matches Vander Hoeven at 67. Vander Hoeven is confirmed Z220. So you can see how important this clue is as it shows a split with the Dutch families of Holland and Vander Hoeven at around 1060, according to Mark Jost. It is also why I get passionate about the discussion of Flanders and the Flemish and how they relate to P312 and U106.
    Last edited by Webb; 04-15-2014 at 07:43 PM.

  11. #198
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    I go from 200 matches at 12 markers, to 7 at 67, and 1 at 111 - a Merkel. There's nothing in between 12 and 67.

  12. #199
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    Got a message from BritainsDNA:

    Dear Seth,
    We are writing with an update on your Chromo2 YDNA results. The initial results from Chromo2 tests have allowed us to learn a huge amount, and using this new data, our geneticists have been able to extend and refine the subtypes on the Y chromosome tree. As a result of this ongoing research, we have upgraded approximately 250 Y-SNP markers to subtype status, adding further definition to many customers’ results.

    As part of this work, we have been able to further define your YDNA subtype. Please note that your genetic signature may also have changed, as we have reviewed some Y-SNPs to improve the positive vs. negative allele clustering, and removed some Y-SNPs altogether, after discovering they were not working properly.

    Your updated YDNA subtype and genetic signature are now available via your myDNA account. Please log in to view.

    Best wishes,

    The BritainsDNA Team
    Seems that they finally accepted DF99/S11987 as a descendant of P312/S116. Nowt else has changed in the report except for this:

    Subtype

    Your subtype is R1b-S11987
    Your S11987 subtype was recently discovered using Chromo2, so its distribution is not yet understood. You may carry markers that further define your subtype, but do not yet appear on our tree. You will find these in your genetic signature.
    All the Regional Distribution ect. is reflective of the R-S116* result as opposed to the S11987 result.

  13. #200
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    Two new DF99 results came in, and both were positive. One has English ancestry in Kent. The other has ancestry only to early 18C Virginia, but with an English surname which seems to have its greatest concentration in East Anglia.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 04-19-2014 at 05:29 PM.

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